Coaching or reputation?

[CycoCyclone]

We also need the $$$, I've heard from recruits that our athletic facilities just don't matchup to those at other "performing" institutions.

JP is starting that process, like it or not, of bringing our facilities up to date.

I for one, really, really want the north end zone closed in, like a horseshoe. More seats, suites, louder, and less wind. If I ever win powerball, you'll see that in short order.

[Bobber]

Mac's biggest sin was loyalty to Iowa State.

My only fear is that if HCPR has some success, then levels off or even has a down year or two, fans will be screaming for his head, too. "He can't get us to the next level." Sound familiar?

If that happens, you will end up in the same situation Nebraska did when Solich had the school's first non-winning record in 40 years. People panicked and the next year, he went 9-3, but minds had already been made up and the rest is history. If you think Chizek was bad...

I spoke with a member of HCPR's family last weekend, and his comment was telling. He told me, "Everything is fun now, my concern is how will people react if the wins don't come like they want them to."

I know these guys get paid a lot of money to produce, but a revolving door at Iowa State will only compound the problems.

Just don't see that happening. ISU has historically been very loyal to coaches(Dan McCarney is a great example). Now if he's in year 6 and hasn't put together a winning season, may need to do something.

And when you get down to the brass tacks, Paul Rhoads is being paid very well to do something. He knows that and I think at a certain level his family does too.

[Cyrocks]

Mac's biggest sin was loyalty to Iowa State.

My only fear is that if HCPR has some success, then levels off or even has a down year or two, fans will be screaming for his head, too. "He can't get us to the next level." Sound familiar?

If that happens, you will end up in the same situation Nebraska did when Solich had the school's first non-winning record in 40 years. People panicked and the next year, he went 9-3, but minds had already been made up and the rest is history. If you think Chizek was bad...

I spoke with a member of HCPR's family last weekend, and his comment was telling. He told me, "Everything is fun now, my concern is how will people react if the wins don't come like they want them to."

I know these guys get paid a lot of money to produce, but a revolving door at Iowa State will only compound the problems.

Agreed, but I think ISU fans would cut ANY coach some slack if 7-5 are considered the "down" years.

I'm new on this site, but I think this question has been asked and answered a million times: "Does anyone really believe the football program was going in the right direction the last three years under McCarney?"

I don't think it was. I honestly believe that if JP had kept McCarney, ISU's record the last two years would have been the same.

The reason for this, bad hires for assistants including Cotton as O coordinator and Marty Fine as O line coach. They were like anchors.

[DaddyMac]

Mac's biggest sin was loyalty to Iowa State.

My only fear is that if HCPR has some success, then levels off or even has a down year or two, fans will be screaming for his head, too. "He can't get us to the next level." Sound familiar?

If that happens, you will end up in the same situation Nebraska did when Solich had the school's first non-winning record in 40 years. People panicked and the next year, he went 9-3, but minds had already been made up and the rest is history. If you think Chizek was bad...

I spoke with a member of HCPR's family last weekend, and his comment was telling. He told me, "Everything is fun now, my concern is how will people react if the wins don't come like they want them to."

I know these guys get paid a lot of money to produce, but a revolving door at Iowa State will only compound the problems.

I don't want to turn this into a Bash-DannyMac thread. I think the world of the man. He exuded class in everything he did.

But loyalty? He did a few interviews while he was here, didn't he? If anything, ISU was unbelievably loyal to Coach Mac. I think most people question the fact if Coach Mac got us to the "first level". All time low in quality of teams in the north, nothing schools in non-con, and a dilluted bowl system. And most years we scrapped by to even be eligible at .500. We had nine wins 1 season? I think 8 in another, intermingled with 3 win season in between. If anything we can see that our "success" was largely based on one player wearing #15. The following season, despite everything we heard about 20 of 24 starters returning, we went 3-8? So where's the foundation after 8 years?

Put me in the group that Coach Mac did what he could at ISU, but it was time to move on.

I don't think a "revolving door" at ISU will ever be an issue. At least not due to decisions by the school. Some people forget that Mac was here for 12 years. Not like he got kicked to the curb after 3-4 seasons.

And comparing ISU to NU's situation is like comparing apples to sea bass. There's nothing similar. When you have a few national championships in the case, you may look at things differently - not to say that they were right. But I don't see ISU fans doing such a thing.

[CyCy]

If every Big 12 school had a coach of equal ability, would we be consistently winning 8-10 games every year. IMO no, because other schools have big advantages over us in facilities, recruiting base and budget.

If were are to become a consistent 8-10 win season year after year then the controlling factor will have to be great coaching. We will need to have a brilliant AD who is able to select coaches that are better than what the other AD's are hiring. And he'll have to do that with a compensation package less than the other schools in the conference.

How realistic is that? Not impossible, but we will need a lot of things to fall into place for it to happen. We've had 4 winning conference records in the past 30 years. That wasn't caused by just bad coaching.

[CycoCyclone]

If every Big 12 school had a coach of equal ability, would we be consistently winning 8-10 games every year. IMO no, because other schools have big advantages over us in facilities, recruiting base and budget.

If were are to become a consistent 8-10 win season year after year then the controlling factor will have to be great coaching. We will need to have a brilliant AD who is able to select coaches that are better than what the other AD's are hiring. And he'll have to do that with a compensation package less than the other schools in the conference.

How realistic is that? Not impossible, but we will need a lot of things to fall into place for it to happen. We've had 4 winning conference records in the past 30 years. That wasn't caused by just bad coaching.

+1

[intrepid27]

And they got Bill back... I would add to it, right coach at the right time! I don't see KSU going back to the days of top 10s under Snyder this time around.

I agree. I was referring to his early career.

The thing that always frustrated me with Danny Mac was he could never capitalize on his success. When he had a good season he did not get better recruits. Even short term, when he had a lead during a game he sat on it rathern than trying to build on it. Baaaaaaaaaaaaaad plan.

[Wingback]

Obviously, the ISU situation is different than the situation at Nebraska, DaddyMac. I made that point in another thread when the question was asked would Bob Stoops or Mack Brown be fired after a 2-10 season. My answer was they would either be on a very short rope or on his way out the door. And as I said, the reason is that schools like Texas and Oklahoma are used to 10-2 seasons and not 2-10 seasons. Iowa State, unfortunately, is more used to 2-10 seasons, so logic would tell you that people would be a little more understanding.

The point I was trying to make is that this phrase "the next level" absolutely drives me nuts. And my concern is that if HCPR doesn't get ISU to the "next level," whatever in the heck that is, will fans and boosters get irrational and force a stupid decision to be made (and Iowa State end up with their version of Bill Callahan). Because a revolving door is the last thing Cyclone fans should want.

I guess, in a nutshell, my plea is for ISU fans to be reasonable. Long term, we know Texas and Oklahoma will most likely dominate the South. And if past history is any indicator, probably Nebraska and maybe Colorado will be the powers that be in the North. If Paul Rhoads can produce nothing worse than .500 seasons, and then if everything falls right (or another Seneca Wallace appears) and a few upsets occur along the way, who knows 10 wins, a North title, and a January bowl game are not out of the question from time-to-time.

[Bobber]

The point I was trying to make is that this phrase "the next level" absolutely drives me nuts. And my concern is that if HCPR doesn't get ISU to the "next level," whatever in the heck that is, will fans and boosters get irrational and force a stupid decision to be made (and Iowa State end up with their version of Bill Callahan). Because a revolving door is the last thing Cyclone fans should want.

The next level is pretty simple. Beat a ranked team once in a while, take us to some bowls, win them and don't go 2 and 8 the next year. If he can get us 90% of what Eastern Iowa U does, the Cyclone nation will be happy.

[CyWantsAWin]

8) Finally and probably most important is a rabid fan following that gets you money flow and national recognition even when you blow.

Difficult at the least when you consider that the average fan is not willing to donate at the lowest level and is upset at ticket price increases to the level of competitive programs. More wins and a bowl trip would certainly help to open up a few wallets.

[DaddyMac]

I guess, in a nutshell, my plea is for ISU fans to be reasonable. Long term, we know Texas and Oklahoma will most likely dominate the South. And if past history is any indicator, probably Nebraska and maybe Colorado will be the powers that be in the North. If Paul Rhoads can produce nothing worse than .500 seasons, and then if everything falls right (or another Seneca Wallace appears) and a few upsets occur along the way, who knows 10 wins, a North title, and a January bowl game are not out of the question from time-to-time.

I don't think 85% of ISU fans would be upset with that scenario.

I know I won't. And I think it's a given CPR will be given alot more leash than one would expect fans at Tex, OU or even NU to give their coaches.

[RotatingColumn]

Two words...Hayden Fry.

Without him, I don't see the EIU football team being any different than ISU. There was about a 20 year span where EIU didn't do much in football at all, until raisin face arrived. He is the one who turned the team around and they have been "successful" ever since. He was able to recruit TX very well and bring some pretty good recruits to IA.

I believe that if Johnny Majors would have stayed at ISU, the same thing could have happened here.

Danny Mac was almost there, but being so close and not winning the North title really killed any momentum that we had.

Absolutely. I’ve run into older Hock fans from time to time that admit to me they were Cyclone fans in the 70’s. But after Majors and Bruce left they jumped ship. Basically on the notion - how do you expect us to support your football program when you, the University, does not. And I don’t blame them.

It’s just interesting to think ISU had the pieces in place to take over the state and compete with NU for big dog in the region. Then just let it slip away.

[Wingback]

Absolutely. I’ve run into older Hock fans from time to time that admit to me they were Cyclone fans in the 70’s. But after Majors and Bruce left they jumped ship. Basically on the notion - how do you expect us to support your football program when you, the University, does not. And I don’t blame them.

It’s just interesting to think ISU had the pieces in place to take over the state and compete with NU for big dog in the region. Then just let it slip away.

Your final statement probably isn't very far from the truth, Rotating. Majors had his ups-and-downs, in spite of two bowl appearances (in an era when it was truly difficult to get to a bowl game), but the biggest shame is that ISU couldn't hang onto Earle Bruce. During his final three seasons, he went 8-3, 8-3, and 8-4 and went to two bowl games (and probably should have been three). In Bruce's first three seasons in Ames, he went 12-21, but in his final three, he went 24-11. He truly had the ship headed in the right direction and who knows what might have happened had ISU been able to keep him around.

[Cyrocks]

...but the biggest shame is that ISU couldn't hang onto Earle Bruce. During his final three seasons, he went 8-3, 8-3, and 8-4 and went to two bowl games (and probably should have been three). In Bruce's first three seasons in Ames, he went 12-21, but in his final three, he went 24-11. He truly had the ship headed in the right direction and who knows what might have happened had ISU been able to keep him around.

You can thank ol Woody Hayes for punching that Clemson player on the sidelines for Bruce leaving ISU.

I don't blame Bruce -- that was his dream job. I don't think ISU could pay Bruce enough money to stay. I blame ISU's AD at the time for hiring Donnie Duncan instead of John Cooper. Talk about a missed opportunity.

[cyclone13]

My observations

• Mac was a good coach. I respect him so much but it was time for him to go. He changed the losing ways but couldn’t take it to the next level. The failure to win Big 12 North several years ago really hurt the program.
• We failed to build a tradition after the 2000-2001 successful seasons. That costs us a lot in terms of development. We became stagnant after 2005 season. That’s why Mac had to go.
• We lacked signature wins e.g against Kansas State (except in Snyder’s 2 last seasons and that was when the wildcats were really bad), Nebraska (we beat them when everyone else beat them, so our victories were sharply devalued).
• Lack of signature wins prevent us to get significant exposure
• Without Signature wins, continuous tradition and exposure hurt us significantly. Look at EIU: even when they were down during Ferentz’ first couple of seasons they were still on TV and players still wanted to go and play there because of the “traditions”
• We need to find a niche to market the team to players. Look at Texas Tech and Boise State. They’re a gimmick program (esp TTU) but they can sell their game plans to the players. We need to find a gimmick or something else like “if you go to let’s say Florida, you might end up as one of the starts, but if you come here, you’ll be the MAN” (like Ron Zook’s method when hiring good players to Illinois. Another way is to build the program that gravitates toward NFL: we will make sure that you’re fundamentally sound and ready to go to the next level. Mac initially was successful in defining ISU as a running team with 2000-yard rushers, but it then disappeared.
• Continue Mac’s actions in attracting fans. Or follow Bill Fennelly’s way to build a fan base. CPR has a good chance to do so especially considering that people were really upset at Chizik.
• Be competitive: I think a lot of fans got tired by Mac’s inability to beat the Wildcats or even play competitively against them. The fans don’t really mind losing as long as they can see the team played hard and played a good game.
• ISU fans generally know that it takes time to build a program. Most fans gave Chizik a reprieve in his first 2 seasons because they bought Chizik’s visions and were willing to wait. Improvement will be the key. As long as fans can see that the team is improving, they’ll be willing to wait.
• Last but not least: we need money to improve facilities, salaries as well as other functions. I know sometimes this is a question of "which one comes first, chicken or egg ?"