ESPN article on ISU

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Originally Posted by JustRedman

I, for one, was one of the people that was not upset to see Mac go. I will always like him for what he did for ISU, but I felt his best days were behind him.
I was also very excited when Dizik was hired. I thought, "4 years. 3 wins over UofI. 2 bowl games. He'll move on."
Little did any of us know what a jerk he was...which I guess may be typical of non-Iowans.
This article was comparing two completely different programs though. A&M used to be a power, in a power state, with a talent pool deeper than anyone in the North could dream of. Yet they still sucked under DF.
ISU was coming off a 4-8 season, a new HC who was totally unfamiliar with having to build...not just reload. He did do a good job recruiting, but that's about it.
Dizik also proved he wasn't a motivator. He couldn't rally the troops, and I think it's safe to say we got a huge upgrade with CPR. Jean was glamorized by the talent at AU and UT. It was obvious that he couldn't get the most out of his players, but rather the players (at AU & UT) got the most out of his system. I hope he falls flat on his face at AU (and I am a pretty big AU fan).

All in all, most sports writers don't have a feel for the pulse of the community. They look at things from space and write accordingly. On paper ISU made a terrible choice letting Mac go. But what we did do was have a 2 year learning process of what a school like ours needs as their HC. We hired someone in the same mold as Mac. Tough. Intense. Defensive-minded. Overall genuine guy with a real passion for the university.
The best thing Dizik did for ISU was open our eyes to how bad we could have it if we don't know our limits. He was NEVER going to fall in love with ISU. He probably never even unpacked when he got to Ames.
But, had we hired CPR right after Mac was let go, there would been a TON of people ****** off about the hire.
We needed Dizik to be the night to our day. Fuhk him. Let AU have him.
We definately got the better end of the deal.

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This could not be a much more perfect analysis. I have thought all of this all along.

However I am sorry to say i think that AU got as good a deal as we did. Iowa State needs a guy that can rebuild, AU needs a guy that only has to reload. We both got what we needed.

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Originally Posted by StateThrowdown

This could not be a much more perfect analysis. I have thought all of this all along.

However I am sorry to say i think that AU got as good a deal as we did. Iowa State needs a guy that can rebuild, AU needs a guy that only has to reload. We both got what we needed.

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I'd agree with this in part, but I still think the Cheese is going to be outmatched in the SEC. Compare the coaches he'll see every year

Big XII North:
Mangino
Pelini
Pinkel
Hawkins
Prince

SEC West:
Saban
Miles
Nutt
Petrino
Mullen

Doubt anybody will disagree with me that Saban and Miles are better coaches than Mangino and Pelini. I'd take Nutt and Petrino over Pinkel and Hawkins, as well. Mullen is to Miss. St. what Chizik was to us, an unproven coordinator coming off a national championship, and Ron Prince got fired.

The other half is more even in terms of coaching talent, I'd say Meyer/Brown, Spurrier/Stoops, Richt/Leach, Kiffin/Gundy and Johnson/Briles are pretty close, and Brooks has an edge over Sherman.

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Originally Posted by superfan

I'd agree with this in part, but I still think the Cheese is going to be outmatched in the SEC. Compare the coaches he'll see every year

Big XII North:
Mangino
Pelini
Pinkel
Hawkins
Prince

SEC West:
Saban
Miles
Nutt
Petrino
Mullen

Doubt anybody will disagree with me that Saban and Miles are better coaches than Mangino and Pelini. I'd take Nutt and Petrino over Pinkel and Hawkins, as well. Mullen is to Miss. St. what Chizik was to us, an unproven coordinator coming off a national championship, and Ron Prince got fired.

The other half is more even in terms of coaching talent, I'd say Meyer/Brown, Spurrier/Stoops, Richt/Leach, Kiffin/Gundy and Johnson/Briles are pretty close, and Brooks has an edge over Sherman.

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But Pelini is restoring the order? How could he not be considered better than Saban?:jimlad:

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Originally Posted by cstrunk

I hate it when they mention how many bowl games a program has been to recently compared with long ago. It only takes a 6-6 record to get in now folks! It used to take 8 or more! Terrible use of those statistics in that argument.

The article didn't mention that while McCarney had brought us out of the depths of college football, he stalled out and it became obvious he couldn't win the big games when they REALLY counted. We needed to find someone we thought could do that. Our first try didn't work out. Hopefully this one will.

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ISU would have gone to 3 bowl games in the 80's under the current system.

ISU would have had a SHOT at 1 bowl game under Mac with the old system. Just sayin.

What does Chiz prefer to be called? Is it Jean or Jeanie?

Guys as a long timer observer of ISU football -- I am not sure that this is to far off the mark.

Mac -- like him or not did get us to bowl games and crunch out 1000 yard rushers.

All this current talk about an upgrade is just that ... talk. GC did not win and Paul has't coached a game yet.

Sorry to sound so negative but I have had this same nagging feeling that this might be the case for the last couple of years or so. Say what you want but Mac did get us close and we could always look for a victory over the sqwauks.

I think I am a victim of the dreaded underexpectation syndrome that develops from being a long standing and die hard cardinal and gold booster. (Maybe I have just described a new syndrome)!! :jimlad:

Doubt anybody will disagree with me that Saban and Miles are better coaches than Mangino and Pelini.

Well, I might. Saban and Miles are certainly excellent coaches, but it is much, much easier to win at places like Alabama and LSU than it is at a place like Kansas. I'm not saying Mangino is better, but "per-capita" in terms of tradition and talent compared to those schools, he has done a phenomenal job.

Interesting use of "per capita."

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Originally Posted by CycloneErik

But Pelini is restoring the order? How could he not be considered better than Saban?:jimlad:

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Anyone with a long-term view discounts Saban. He isn't going to stay and build a dynasty or even a solid program, he's going to have a few good teams and quit a la Tim Floyd.

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Originally Posted by ISUChippewa

Well, I might. Saban and Miles are certainly excellent coaches, but it is much, much easier to win at places like Alabama and LSU than it is at a place like Kansas. I'm not saying Mangino is better, but "per-capita" in terms of tradition and talent compared to those schools, he has done a phenomenal job.

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Mangino is twice the coach Saban and Miles are. Maybe three times the coach, in Saban's case. :biglaugh: :biglaugh: :biglaugh:

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Originally Posted by ISUChippewa

Doubt anybody will disagree with me that Saban and Miles are better coaches than Mangino and Pelini.

Well, I might. Saban and Miles are certainly excellent coaches, but it is much, much easier to win at places like Alabama and LSU than it is at a place like Kansas. I'm not saying Mangino is better, but "per-capita" in terms of tradition and talent compared to those schools, he has done a phenomenal job.

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It's all relative. Mangino wouldn't recruit as good at Bama as Saban can. Doesn't have the personality for it. Recruiting is 80% of the job

I love Mac and always will b/c of the memories he gave us and the passion he instilled in ISU football......but honestly, I'm over it and it's time to move on with CPR......GO STATE!

Griffin said that sometimes you don't know how much you'll miss someone until they're gone, and there's a lot of truth in that. However, it's equally true that sometimes you can't really understand a coaching change unless you're a fan of that team.

Mac did a lot of good for ISU, and that's an understatement. As much as people rip on Duncan, Criner, and Walden (and deservedly so, as they brought the program down from where it was when Bruce left to where it was when Mac took over), ISU in the 80s was MUCH better than ISU in the 90s. In the 80s, ISU had three teams that finished with a winning record (6-5 in 1980, 1986, and 1989; one winning season for each coach that would have put ISU in a bowl by today's standards), another team that finished 5-5-1 (1981), and two teams that finished 5-6, just one game short of a winning record (1985 and 1988). In other words, ISU was at least one game away from a winning record for over half the decade. Six ISU teams from the 80s won at least as many games as Chizik won in his two years here, which is why you can make a case he was the worst ISU coach in the modern era.

In the 90s, not a single ISU team managed to win more than four games. Because of lack of support from the administration early in the decade and Walden basically giving up on the job, Mac walked into a situation that looked almost impossible. The roster was full of Division 1-AA players (aside from a couple gems like Troy Davis), we were entering the Big 12, and we hadn't beaten Iowa since 1982. Thankfully, he got more support than his predecessor and was given enough time to put a winning team on the field, largely because he was able to beat Iowa as Fry's career was winding down and Ferentz's was just starting. Most coaches only get three or four years to turn things around, but ISU was so bad that Mac was given six.

Mac won only five conference games his first five years on the job, which put ISU solidly in last place in Big 12 wins during that period. When we broke through in 2000 however, he doubled his conference wins up to that point. In fact, from 2000-2002 he won 13 conference games, which put ISU solidly in the middle of the pack with an average of over four conference wins per year. On top of that, he beat Iowa those three years (and two of those Iowa teams went to bowls), so you can truthfully say that it was one of the best three year stretches in ISU football history.

Unfortunately, momentum didn't continue and the next four years were a different story. ISU only managed to win nine conference games during those FOUR years compared to 13 the previous THREE years. We were the second worst team in the conference during that period, ahead of only Baylor with seven wins. In fact, the only thing separating us from Baylor as far as conference wins was our 26-25 win in Waco in 2004. That's pretty bad when you consider how bad the Big 12 North was during that period. On top of that, ISU only beat Iowa once in those four years.

It's clear that ISU was slipping, but let's take a closer look at those last four years. We were all willing to give Mac a pass on the 2003 season because the schedule was horrendously tough and we had a lot of injuries. Besides it would have been absolutely rediculous to fire Mac after the success he had the previous three years.

Going into the 2004 season not much was expected, but ISU managed to go 4-4 in a Big 12 North that was the worst it's ever been. It was a good coaching job by Mac to rattle off four straight conference wins after starting 0-3. At home with the Big 12 North on the line, however, we managed to lose to a 4-6 Missouri team that had lost five straight games. But it was a young team, and Mac did a good job to get that team in position to win the North.

We went into 2005 as a favorite to win the North, yet we managed to do the exact same thing we did the year before. We started 0-3 in the Big 12, won our next four, then lost our last game with the North on the line after everything had fallen into place for us.

Looking back, 2004 and 2005 were Mac's tenth and eleventh years on the job, and things were set up perfectly for us. Barnett at Colorado and Snyder at Kansas State were on the downsides of their careers. Nebraska hired a terrible coach in Bill Calahan. Pinkel at Missouri and Mangino at Kansas were still building their programs up. Iowa State was the most stable program in the North during that period. On top of that, we had the easy South rotation. If you can't jump up and grab the North one of those years, when are you going to?

With the tougher South rotation back for 2006, all Mac would have had to do to keep his job is get to a bowl. Yet heading into Mac's twelfth season, we were scrambling to replace injured and lost players because we never developed any depth. Just look at what happened on the defensive line. Leaders graduates, so we have to recruit a JUCO OL (Rubin) and hope that he both makes it to school and is able to play NG. He doesn't arrive soon enough to be prepared to start, so we have to go with a true freshman (Frere) the first few games. Berryman gets kicked off the team again, so we recruit a JUCO DE (Collins Eboh) and hope he makes it to school. He doesn't, so we have to go with another true freshman (Parker). The thrown together defense sucked, so we can rely on the offense with ten starters back, right? Nope, they sucked too because Barney Cotton was a terrible OC/OL coach. We won four games, but each game was decided on the very last play.

It was clear that ISU had not only missed its chance to jump up in the standings under Mac, but it also was slipping back to the bottom of the pack. And looking at Mac's last few recruiting classes, it wasn't going to get better. The 2004 class had probably six players that were Big 12 caliber. Two of them were JUCOs who were gone by 2006 (Tim Dobbins and LaMarcus Hicks), one was kicked off the team for breaking the law (Tyease Thompson), two of them had their careers greatly affected by injuries (Adam Carper and Chris Brown), and only one of them was a solid player for four years (R.J. Sumrall). The 2005 class had probably nine Big 12 caliber players, including some solid ones, but that's still not a very good "hit" rate, especially when the previous class was so bad. It's hard to say about the 2006 class because some of those guys still have a chance to make an impact, but out of the 30 players signed, only 12 are still here.

As success on the field became less and less, recruiting was going to keep getting worse and worse, and more people would lose faith in the direction of the program. Something had to be done to reverse the trend, and that was a coaching change. We obviously made the wrong hire, but that doesn't mean that the decision to have Mac resign was a bad one.

All that said, we should all be thankful for what Mac was able to do at Iowa State. I truly wish he could have kept the momentum going.

That was one long, great, objective assessment of the program. I'm 100% with you. I think Mac did a phenomenal job and am grateful. Lets leave it at that.