new commit!!!!!

**cyhiphopp** · 09-28-2009, 11:56 AM

Originally Posted by Bobber

I think you guys are being a little hard on Monty. He's got a good point. You can do well with JUCO talent short term(KSU in the 90's.), but it's probably not a good long term way to build a program. Look over at Eastern Iowa U and see how many JUCO's they go after...

I see it as a short term patch and that's a little of what we need right now.

With the brutal schedule the next couple years, I think we should go after all high school kids and red shirt them all next year. That won't do much for us short term, but long term we'll have some strong players who will be with us a while coming into the system in 2011.

But what do I know?

I understand that and agree with a lot of what you said. My only problem is, if we recruit only HS players and let them take their lumps, we may only win a few games the next two years. Those losses will impact future recruiting classes and fan support for the program.
It's tough to sell a product to recruits or fans if you aren't even close to winning. Currently it looks like ISU is in on a lot of really good JuCo players. If these guys can help us win a few more games against brutal schedules the next few years, I think the overall health of the program will be better.
That just my opinion as well because I am not an expert. I just know that a lot of fans and possilby recruits look at wins on the field as progress and don't see the big picture of developing young talent. Personally, I know that if ISU goes 4-20 over the next two years to concentrate on HS talent, my wife wont want to go to games and watch them get pounded. Even if I can tell that they are building for the future, losses hurt.

**ISUFan22** · 09-28-2009, 01:05 PM

Originally Posted by Bobber

With the brutal schedule the next couple years, I think we should go after all high school kids and red shirt them all next year. That won't do much for us short term, but long term we'll have some strong players who will be with us a while coming into the system in 2011.

Fortunately, neither you or Monty are making these decisions. As noted, how could we continue to get talent and fan dollars with this method? Send out letters saying "We're gonna suck for a couple years and this young talent is gonna get it handed to them, but we're hopeful to be good in 2012!".

Yup, that'll work swell.

This program has brought in some nice JUCO talent. And without some of these guys, we don't have one or two of our postseason appearances. It's a roll of the dice, as is recruiting any young player. For every Seneca Wallace, there is a guy out there is a Wallace Franklin. And for every Todd Blythe, there is a touted freshman that did squat his 4 years.

**Bobber** · 09-28-2009, 01:35 PM

My contention is that we can get a whole class of Juco players and it may give us 1 or 2 more wins in the next couple years. Is that really worth what you give up recruiting a Juco?

I'm not against Juco's at all. I just think we should put more effort into getting high school kids, developing them and thinking long term.

Just because we red shirt a whole class, doesn't mean we're giving up on a season. Nebraska pretty much did that this year.

**MontyBurns** · 09-28-2009, 01:39 PM

Originally Posted by ISUFan22

Send out letters saying "We're gonna suck for a couple years and this young talent is gonna get it handed to them, but we're hopeful to be good in 2012!".

Worked out okay for these teams:

Kansas:
8-17 in Mangino's 1st two years, currently ranked 18th on their way to their 3rd bowl in a row.

Missouri:
9-14 in Pinkel's 1st two years, currently ranked 23rd on their way to their 5th bowl in a row.

Oklahoma State:
11-13 in Gundy's 1st two years, currently ranked 14th on their way to their 4th bowl in a row

Iowa:
4-19 in Ferentz' 1st two years, currently ranked 13th on their way to their 2nd bowl in a row.

It is unrealistic to think we can get JUCO's to win now and HS players to win later. If we build with JUCO's we will get to some bowl game -- like Shreveport -- fast, but we will never be a top 20 ranked team.

**cycloneG** · 09-28-2009, 01:59 PM

Originally Posted by MontyBurns

Worked out okay for these teams:

Kansas:
8-17 in Mangino's 1st two years, currently ranked 18th on their way to their 3rd bowl in a row.

Missouri:
9-14 in Pinkel's 1st two years, currently ranked 23rd on their way to their 5th bowl in a row.

Oklahoma State:
11-13 in Gundy's 1st two years, currently ranked 14th on their way to their 4th bowl in a row

Iowa:
4-19 in Ferentz' 1st two years, currently ranked 13th on their way to their 2nd bowl in a row.

It is unrealistic to think we can get JUCO's to win now and HS players to win later. If we build with JUCO's we will get to some bowl game -- like Shreveport -- fast, but we will never be a top 20 ranked team.

KU has brought in 16 JUCOs, MU has brought in 15 JUCOs, and OSU has brought in 19 JUCOs over the last 4 years.

**IsUaClone2** · 09-28-2009, 02:01 PM

Would somebody retitle this thread to "Recruiting Strategy Filibuster"? I tuned in to read about commitment from a high school kid and all I'm seeing are people spitting in each other's face about JUCOs.

Congratulations Tom on your commitment. You sound like you will be a valuable contribution to the Cyclone football program (as long as you don't stop off at a JUCO first).

**Bobber** · 09-28-2009, 02:04 PM

Originally Posted by cycloneG

KU has brought in 16 JUCOs, MU has brought in 15 JUCOs, and OSU has brought in 19 JUCOs over the last 4 years.

Okay, that averages about 4 players per class. I don't have a problem with low numbers like that.

**GoShow97** · 09-28-2009, 02:10 PM

Originally Posted by MontyBurns

If we want to go to Shreveport as soon as possible with no foundation for the future, by all means recruit JUCO's right and left.

Hey, it worked for Mac.

**cgwarrior33** · 09-28-2009, 02:14 PM

Monty. I understand its your opinion that you don't think we need JUCOs or that you don't want JUCOs. I'm not gonna bash you or chastize you for it. A couple things I am going to bring up and ask/point out.

Yes, we have three signed, how many total we will end up with, no one knows.

Say we end up at 6-7, that leaves room for 16-18 spots for HS kids in the class. That is a healthy amount of HS kids who can either play right away or RS and develop.

Your signature says what you think of JP and your disappointments for FB and BB. Would you rather go to a bowl or sit at home in December? You go after the player who can best help you get to a bowl. JUCO, HS...I don't care, get a player in who can get it done.

I am for continuity in the program through HS kids. However, throwing a kid into the fire before he is ready can greatly hurt a player. These players have egos and if you hurt them too early, they may never develop.

Until we can get players with the ability to step in and play at a high level right away (Colt McCoy, Reggie Bush, Knowshon Moreno...etc), we are going to have to take a couple JUCOs in each class no matter what to provide depth at a position to allow the HS kids to develop.

One final thought. Have you ever recruited a HS player? My experience has been limited in it, but I can tell you this... When you have a player who can come in and help out your program right away as a freshman, you are usually up against some schools who A) Have more tradition than you B) Are usually better than you C) Have been winning more than you recently or have been winning longer than you have been (back to tradition). When you go up against bigger and better schools...that nice Dodge Charger you are selling a kid, looks like a junker when you are going against a Ferarri (too lazy right now too look up the sp). You take the best available you can get...like it or not...until you start winning and then you can become more selective in your recruiting strategy.

**GoShow97** · 09-28-2009, 02:17 PM

Originally Posted by MontyBurns

I find it amusing that the same people who wanted a level beyond what Mac gave us -- slightly better than .500 ball .

Nice revisionist history. Mac was not even close to playing .500 ball.
FACT .397. I love how you seemingly always ignore the facts.

Dan McCarney 1995-2006 .397

Dan McCarney

1995-2006

12
141
56
85
0
.397

**tiberius** · 09-28-2009, 02:21 PM

Yeah I agree on no JUCOs. Guys like Seneca,Dobbins,Tuba,Sims, are bad for the program.

**GoShow97** · 09-28-2009, 02:22 PM

Originally Posted by MontyBurns

Fan mentality translates to support which translates to $$$. .

+1
Just like what JP has done.

**ISUFan22** · 09-28-2009, 02:25 PM

Originally Posted by cycloneG

KU has brought in 16 JUCOs, MU has brought in 15 JUCOs, and OSU has brought in 19 JUCOs over the last 4 years.

You hush now with your facts...you are confusing poor Monty!

**cyhiphopp** · 09-28-2009, 02:30 PM

Originally Posted by arganbright2

It's my understanding that Ricky Howard will be playing Defensive End for us. Also, don't forget about Aaron Moore who had to redshirt this year because of some an infection or something. Those two should help out with the DE situation. We still need at least 2 linebackers and a couple DT's

Is there any truth to Ricky Howard playing DE for us? That sounds like it might be a good idea. If so, has he played the position before?

**KCy** · 09-28-2009, 02:36 PM

Good get. I would take a good juco commit anyday. I would rather have a good high school commit but we have had a lot of difference makers come through the juco way. There is no need to fight about it. With Snyder, Kstate has had a lot of success with juco's. I didn't hear much complaining when Money signed. Why is everyone complaining now?