Offensive anemia is infuriating

**CloneIce** · 11-09-2009, 12:32 PM

Originally Posted by ISUFan22

I believe neither to be true.

Exactly. Herman has done an adequate job this year. Not real good, not bad either. Just OK. It drives me nuts that he won't go under center on a 3rd or 4th in short with our offensive personnel.

Our offense was as good or better last year with a worse OL. This year we looked good at times, and have battled injuries in the last 3 games where our offense has been ineffective.

Surely it would look better with a healthy AA, but we need to get past that and find a way to score some damn points the last two games!

**ajk4st8** · 11-09-2009, 12:39 PM

Originally Posted by tazclone

Still looking at a time he could have been considered a "genius." KU, Baylor? A lot of teams look great against those two. Our offense has been pretty underwhelming. Not saying it won't improve as Herman's offense improved greatly in year 2 at Rice but this year has been very frustarting to watch.

Bringing in a coach to throw the ball around a lot.. and then giving him EXTREMELY few guys who are excellent Big 12 WRs has to be frustrating to him too. Money, Hamilton.. that is it. There are some other ok guys out there.... but lets be honest, would any of our other WRs start for other Big 12 teams.

Darks-no
Sed- no way
Lenz- no
Jake Williams-maybe, but probably no

**tazclone** · 11-09-2009, 12:56 PM

Originally Posted by ajk4st8

Bringing in a coach to throw the ball around a lot.. and then giving him EXTREMELY few guys who are excellent Big 12 WRs has to be frustrating to him too. Money, Hamilton.. that is it. There are some other ok guys out there.... but lets be honest, would any of our other WRs start for other Big 12 teams.

Darks-no
Sed- no way
Lenz- no
Jake Williams-maybe, but probably no

Darks was pretty good last year and Lenz is pretty good this year. Not to mention Franklin and Catlett at TE. But remember many around here tout how great and deep our WR corp is and I have been told that time and time again. Needless to say, we have been told by Herman that the answer to having less talent is to utilize the whole field and spread teams out. We don't do that and most definitely did not on Saturday.

Really don't care either. I have seen one really good offensive game plan and that was the Nebbie game. The gameplan Saturday was not good. OSU is great against the run and they came out and dared us to throw. We did not. We ran it into the teeth of their defense and then got caught in 2nd/third and long when they could come at us. Saturday was a little mind boggling.

**d4nim4l** · 11-09-2009, 12:58 PM

Wow. Lot of Herman hate in here. I will continue to trust the reputation he developed at previous stops and what I have seen on the field in previous weeks.

Fact is we have not had Austen for 2 1/2 games. A healthy A-Rob for 4 and no Reggie last week. The offense is back to the non-conference gelling period and happened to run in to a team with a very underrated defense. One of the biggest things working against us this past weekend was not Herman's play calling but rather Austen's injury. Those option reads we have done so well with to start the year were non-existent because of Austen's hand. Whether this is on him or Herman I don't know but the play is designed for the QB to make the read and Austen read plenty of them wrong.

OSU's run blitzes were something else to watch. Especially in the 2nd quarter when it was well established we wanted to run on 1st down. The screen to Darks to start the game worked so well because it went against our strategy that is on film.

Watching the TV broadcast of the game late Saturday I saw an OSU team that was faster than ours on both sides of the ball, a creative one on offense with players who know the system like the back of their hand and an ISU offense out of sync with a hurt quarterback and a suddenly human center.

We will get better and I firmly believe this offense has another good performance to show sometime this year. The matter will be when we show it and if it will be enough.

**jbhtexas** · 11-09-2009, 12:59 PM

I read some blogs about Herman back when he was hired. A comment that came up from time to time was that he was very rigid with his system. You can still find some of those blogs around (note the comment at the bottom of this one:
OC Tom Herman leaves Rice for Iowa State | Owls | Chron.com - Houston Chronicle).

I don't know if such comments are accurate. However, where ISU is right now in its FB development, I don't see strictly rigid systems working very well. To compete in the Big 12, a certain level of athletic talent is required, and right now, ISU is simply not in a position to snag enough good athletes to fit every position in a rigid system. I think McDermott found this out the hard way on the MBB side.

Snag some athletes, work a scheme to best utilize their strengths, and then start to work on the "system" as the team wins a few more games and starts to develop a better recruiting presence. I really think the key to turning around the program at ISU, which doesn't presently have strong FB presence relative to most of the other Big 12 teams, is coaching flexibility.

**d4nim4l** · 11-09-2009, 01:11 PM

I think any argument about the rigidness of his system is shot to **** when you compare the stats between this ISU team and his Rice teams.

Don't compare them on sheer numbers unless you do a Year 1 vs Year 1 analysis but it is plain to see that we are a more balanced team statistically this year than Rice was last year. Herman will even say as much. Our talent is with good RBs and a big, earth moving line. Things that Rice did not have.

You want to talk about a rigid system, go look at Mike Leach.

**Cybyassociation** · 11-09-2009, 01:11 PM

Great news!: The OSU game is over! Time to look towards Coloardo!

**Cy1969** · 11-09-2009, 01:16 PM

Originally Posted by tazclone

Still looking at a time he could have been considered a "genius." KU, Baylor? A lot of teams look great against those two. Our offense has been pretty underwhelming. Not saying it won't improve as Herman's offense improved greatly in year 2 at Rice but this year has been very frustarting to watch.

He was trying to exaggerate a point to try to deflect attention away from a main source of what is being questioned.

I think that AA has had a very poor year, I think that he has definitely regressed.

I understand that part of it is the hand. And I also understand that he had a strong game at KU, so maybe he was starting to get it.

The problem is that we never seem to force other teams to adjust. And, as seen against Iowa, and this weekend, we seem to be pretty damn stubborn in our playcalling.

**Tornado man** · 11-09-2009, 01:17 PM

Originally Posted by d4nim4l

Wow. Lot of Herman hate in here. I will continue to trust in the reputation he developed at previous stops and what I have seen on the field in previous weeks.

That's what most on this board said about Chizik during his two seasons!

My only point is that fans have a right to judge an offense based on what they see on the field, not what the coach did prior to coming to ISU.

**everyyard** · 11-09-2009, 01:19 PM

pretty clear arnaud had no heat on the ball. anything over 10 yards floated so we stopped trying. that equals 1 dimensional and osu loaded up the box.

**everyyard** · 11-09-2009, 01:20 PM

Iowa fans hated on ferentz and their DC for the first 3 years. somethings take time and are worth the wait.

**Cy1969** · 11-09-2009, 01:21 PM

d4, I don't think that anyone hates Herman.

I just think that people are frustrated with the step back that the offense has taken this year.

Just because someone is critical of the job performance, doesn't mean that they hate the coach, or don't support Iowa State as much as you do.

**tazclone** · 11-09-2009, 01:30 PM

Originally Posted by everyyard

pretty clear arnaud had no heat on the ball. anything over 10 yards floated so we stopped trying. that equals 1 dimensional and osu loaded up the box.

AND Arnaud was not keeping on the zone read which tlimitedthe offense even more. So I ask why was Arnaud even in there? Atleast Tiller can run the zone read and get yards even if the staff didn't trust him throwing.

**tazclone** · 11-09-2009, 01:38 PM

Originally Posted by d4nim4l

Wow. Lot of Herman hate in here. I will continue to trust the reputation he developed at previous stops and what I have seen on the field in previous weeks.

Not a hater but I am begining to wonder. His previous success was one successful year at Rice. And two good years at a D1 AA Texas St. not a long track record against high quality competition. I have never understood why people tout his past history as being "great". Solid but not "great."

I am more than happy to give him the benefit of doubt and a few seasons but that doesn't mean I can't look at games like OSU/Iowa and wonder why we did certain things.

IMO- It is really tough to gauge our offense. We put up good numbers against weak opponents and then go into a shell against decent competition. the injuries further complicate the issue because you don't know how much inability is due to injuries. Throw in that our offense was more productive last year with a lot of the same pieces and it is frustrating. Keep in mind last year we were conservative with Arnaud because he had no backup, ARob was hurt, and Knapp went down. Very similar to this year.

This year's offense is frustrating

**dmclone** · 11-09-2009, 01:45 PM

I think you guys are looking at the wrong players to blame. It all comes down to the offensive line. When we control the line of scrimmage everyone will look like a stud. The receivers have time to get open, AA can find open receivers, our running game opens up the passing game. I've yet to see any kind of offense that's good without a great o-line. Just take a look at the few years we've been decent and you'll find a pretty good o-line.

OSU was killing us at the line of scrimmage.