New Depth Chart 11-16

[cyhiphopp]

I wonder how Guyer does in practice...somehow redshirting a kicker vs. getting another recruit seems questionable to me.

Well, I believe I remember that Guyer gave Mahoney a run for his money last year, so I think he is probably a decent kicker.
The reason I want an extra year for him is that it gives the staff an extra year to get his replacement ready. I don't think we have any other scholarship kickers on the roster after Mahoney and Guyer. I just don't want to end up in a situation where we have to rely on a freshman kicker when the game is on the line. We could get lucky though.

DMac seemed to under-recruit the kicking position and it cost him. I just want to consistenly have a good kicker out there. Period.

[tazclone]

There's a gap at backup MLB, I believe Matt Taufoou has been lodged in that slot lately? Hurt, maybe?

By quick count, 33 of the top 44 on offense and defense return. Guess I thought the number of seniors might have been more.

I think the gap you see is to make space for Smith's accomplishments. I would be surprised if Klein doesn't secure the MLB spot next year. The guy is a player. He is 16th in tackles and only plays special teams. everyone in front of him, besides Knott, sees regular playing time. If you watch special teams Klein gets in on EVERY tackle. he gets off blocks fast and reads plays.

[ISUFan22]

Point being, I would like to have a veteran kicker lined up after Mahoney graduates.

I see what you're saying however, Guyer would not be a veteran. He'd have the practice experience but that would really be it.

[cyhiphopp]

I see what you're saying however, Guyer would not be a veteran. He'd have the practice experience but that would really be it.

I am just hoping that practice time experience make him better than a true Frosh. If we recruit a better kicker in the next year or two it may be a moot point.

[BryceC]

Anyone heard anything on Benton? Also I was watching the PR show last night and they mentioned Alvarez missed some time against Colorado, I did not notice him out of the lineup, any news on his siturtion?

At the risk of sounding like a stalker I saw Benton with Rhoads at Hickory Park yesterday and he seemed to be walking well. I don't know if that means he can play, it just means that he is moving around a lot better than I would have expected for a guy with some sort of fracture.

[tazclone]

Mahoney hasn't been that bad. He had a couple bad games and was awful in the Kansas game. Otherwise....best kicker we have had in a while. Just can't let the guys get so much pressure up the middle

Mahoney is worse than Shaggy as far as his numbers go. He has a stronger leg but is less consistent. Take a look at their numbers. Shaggy made 77+% (70% for his career) his first two seasons and didn't mis a PAT. Mahoney is at 65% for his career (first two seasons). Mahoney hasn't had any real pressure cooker kicks either. The only time he has been under pressure was his first year against Iowa and he didn't perform too well.

It would be nice to see him get back on track but you have to look at the numbers as a whole. I am guessing the staff feels the same way based on Saturday's decision not to kick a field goal or attempt to get into field goal position when we were only 7 points ahead.

You are right about pressure up the middle. That has killed us.

[BryceC]

Mahoney is worse than Shaggy as far as his numbers go. He has a stronger leg but is less consistent. Take a look at their numbers. Shaggy made 77+% (70% for his career) his first two seasons and didn't mis a PAT. Mahoney is at 65% for his career (first two seasons). Mahoney hasn't had any real pressure cooker kicks either. The only time he has been under pressure was his first year against Iowa and he didn't perform too well.

Shaggy also never kicked if the kick was 40+ yards. Mahoney has a ton of kicks from 40+ and 50+.

[CyTom]

Shaggy also never kicked if the kick was 40+ yards. Mahoney has a ton of kicks from 40+ and 50+.

What he said. Shaggy had no range and the coaches knew better than to give him a chance.

[cyhiphopp]

I think the talent is there, we just have to work on the consistency and blocking up front.

[Cybyassociation]

He had a rough patch and is over it. Like it or not, his career long ended up winning the game at Nebraska. He has moved on and I can guarantee that he is and will work his *** off to be sure it never happens again.

[tazclone]

Shaggy also never kicked if the kick was 40+ yards. Mahoney has a ton of kicks from 40+ and 50+.

Shaggy did kick over 40 yards and a one over 50. He wasn't strong at it. Here are Shaggy's numbers
20-29 yds 15/18 for 83%
30-39 yds 16/20 for 80%
40-49 yds 6/16 for 38%
50+ 1/1 for 100%
So for his career he was 82% inside of 40 yards and if you look closer you could stretch that distance to 42 yards. He also had a HORRIBLE senior year that brought his numbers way down. He was 85% inside of 42 yds prior to his senior year.

Either way, if Mahoney is missing what is the difference. At least with Shaggy, you had a spot on the field. Get him within 42 yards and you knew you had a better than 80% chance of him making it. The guy was golden inside of 42 yards.

With Mahoney you just aren't sure either way. He is inconsistent from 30 yards and out. Especially lately. This year he is equal to Shaggy beyond 40 yards. And I think our last offensive series proved that on Saturday. We could have kicked a 48 yard field goal with a good wind at our back but instead we pooch punted with our QB? Doesn't show a lot of confidence in the kicker. And the staff had to be thinking IF we miss they get great field position.
Mahoney's Numbers
20-29 yds 5/6 for 83%
30-39 yds 14/19 for 73%
40-49 yds 7/ 13 for 53%
50+ 3/6 for 50%

Mahoney's numbers are worse this year than last and he has kicked much fewer. This year alone
20-29 yds 3/3 for 100%
30-39 yds 4/6 for 67%
40-49 yds 2/5 for 40% This is why we didn't attempt the field goal Saturday
50+ 3/5 for 60%

I am not sure how you can say he is the best kicker we have had in a long time when his percentage is worse than our last kickers. The biggest problem with Shaggy was under pressure. Really he only missed two pressure kicks(KU and NU) and made one(IA). Mahoney has yet to kick under pressure. I am talking game winners or kicks that win the division so I don't know how you can say he is better under pressure.

[tazclone]

his career long ended up winning the game at Nebraska.

if you want to play that game then take a look at how many games we won by less than a field goal in Shaggy's career. One for sure shoudl stick out in your mind but there are many others.

I am not ragging on Mahoney. I like the guy and I think he will get over his inconsistency. I just think people really undervalued Shaggy and looked at his two misses and defined him as a bad kicker. Not to mention Shaggy was a walk on that came from nowhere and Mahoney has been on scholly since he got here.

[cgwarrior33]

You are forgetting him missing at Mizzou from about 40 as well.

Think about the number of times during Shaggy's tenure that we would go for it on 4th and 3 + yds because we weren't confident in his abilities. Mahoney has made 7 less Field Goals in two years than Shaggy did in 4 (assuming Shaggy's numbers are from all 4 years). Mahoney hasn't had near the amount of opportunities to kick in "clutch" situations as Shaggy did so the jury is out on that one. Mahoney has also made more 40+ yarders in two years than Shaggy did in 4.

You also point to the stats. I get that, but you can't allow Shaggy to have a "horrible" year as a senior and chastise Mahoney for having a down year as a Sophomore. You should expect your Seniors to get better, not digress. We can come back to Mahoney's career in two years and compare then.

Also, think about where the ball was on Saturday...the 31. So if you kick the FG and miss it (a 48 yarder with wind), CU gets the ball at the 31. Now if you punt it, at best, they have to go 80 yds to score instead of 69 with 23 seconds left. The snap to Austen was bad, kicked it left footed and still ended up at the 20. It was pure coaching strategy. Make them go the maximum amount of distance in 23 seconds that you can. If you are unsure about the FG situation (wind swirl, ball on a hash...etc) why would you risk the miss and shorten the field when you can take a pretty sure thing and back them up and make them cover a long field?

Also, under Mac, very few of our kickers were recruited and put on scholarship immediately. We took a lot of walk-ons and gave them scholarships eventually.

[tazclone]

You are forgetting him missing at Mizzou from about 40 as well.

Think about the number of times during Shaggy's tenure that we would go for it on 4th and 3 + yds because we weren't confident in his abilities. Mahoney has made 7 less Field Goals in two years than Shaggy did in 4 (assuming Shaggy's numbers are from all 4 years). Mahoney hasn't had near the amount of opportunities to kick in "clutch" situations as Shaggy did so the jury is out on that one. Mahoney has also made more 40+ yarders in two years than Shaggy did in 4.

You also point to the stats. I get that, but you can't allow Shaggy to have a "horrible" year as a senior and chastise Mahoney for having a down year as a Sophomore. You should expect your Seniors to get better, not digress. We can come back to Mahoney's career in two years and compare then.

Also, think about where the ball was on Saturday...the 31. So if you kick the FG and miss it (a 48 yarder with wind), CU gets the ball at the 31. Now if you punt it, at best, they have to go 80 yds to score instead of 69 with 23 seconds left. The snap to Austen was bad, kicked it left footed and still ended up at the 20. It was pure coaching strategy. Make them go the maximum amount of distance in 23 seconds that you can. If you are unsure about the FG situation (wind swirl, ball on a hash...etc) why would you risk the miss and shorten the field when you can take a pretty sure thing and back them up and make them cover a long field?


Also, under Mac, very few of our kickers were recruited and put on scholarship immediately. We took a lot of walk-ons and gave them scholarships eventually.

1. Shaggy hardly kicked his first year so his numbers were way down that year. That was the year we went through 2-3 kickers and then at CU Shaggy actaully made a PAT and was our kicker from then on out.
2. I included all of Shaggy's years in his stats. I pointed out how he regressed his senior year so fair comparison. if you would like to comapre Shaggy's first two years and Mahoney's first two years,Shaggy woul dbe hands down better.
3. Do you think Mahoneys attempts over 40 yds will increase or decrease? I think Saturday, our staff showed they will decrease. They won't give up the field position. They have lost some confidence. If Mahoney was 70-80% from 40-49 you might kick it because your defense played pretty good and CU can't throw the ball.
4. During Shaggy's tenure, go back and look at how many times we were inside of the 27 (42 yard field goal) yard line and went for it on 4th and short. Very rare. The staff knew Shaggy was money inside of 42 yards and had confidence in him. It was 43 yards and beyond that they didn't. If you look at his pressure kicks, two were not within his range. Not much different with Mahoney right now. He is struggling beyond 30 and the staff doesn't have as much confidence as they once had.
5. Last year everyone was talking about how much better Mahoney was than Shaggy. No matter how you look at it, Mahoney has NEVER had better stats than Shaggy. Stronger leg does not equal better. You still have to make the field goal.
6. Clutch kicks- I stated Mahoney hasn't had the opportunities. I am not the one that said he is better. That is the only way he could be better at this time in his career. Statistically he isn't.
7. I understand the field position and not kicking the field goal. Don't have a problem with that at all. But why have your QB do it when you have one of the best punters at pinning people inside the twenty. It isn't like that punt would get returned. It would be sky high and the returner might actually fumble it.

[isucy86]

Numbers can be distorted to tell a story. I know I work with numbers all day!

I breath A LOT easier when Mahoney comes onto the field than I ever did when Shaggy kicked. Mahoney has been solid his first 2 years, other than a bad couple game stretch beginning with the KU game. Range with a kicker is a big deal. Also kicking in pressure situations is a BIG deal. Making FG's when your down by 20 doesn't mean a whole lot.

I think we have a solid kicker the next 2 years in Ames & agree with the original poster that Mahoney is the best kicker ISU has had in a while.