KU/Mizzou making us look pathetic

[frontrangeclone]

you should know better than to ever question ISU fan's attendance trends... you will get digitally tarred and feathered while getting a plethora of excuses.... the economy, a late harvest, games are too late for the kids to be up, holiday shopping, coming off a 2-10 year, dislike of Pollard, the casual sports fan in Iowa is following the hawkeyes this year, the calendar turns from october to november, game not being part of some mini-pack, 2012 is right around the corner, you name it, it's on here. To paraphrase comments by Andy Fales recently, there are what, 5 to 6 homes games in an entire year in a state with no pro teams and talk of football all year long. Even here on CF there will be several dozen threads about football predictions, starting line-ups etc.. until next august, reading CF you'd think we are Nebraska or Ohio State. I think there is a dillusion amongst many on here that think our fanbase can hang with the big boys. It can't. It will never happen. People keep saying, "oh once we start winning, we'll be getting 55000 or 60000 at the Jack." Uh, hello? we had a winning team going into the Mizzou game this year, yet couldn't surpass 45000 for the last 2 home games. What are people waiting for? Next year, the "hard" south schedule will be a convenient excuse. There simply aren't enough people in Iowa interested in ISU football to put 50000-60000 in the Jack consistently. Unless there is a mass migration of ISU alum ex-pats back to Iowa, it will never happen. K-State, Ok. State, Colorado State all have the same problems, whats the common theme here? we're all the land grant universities of each state with big brother in the state soaking up more of the general interest. T. Boone Pickens aside, the mission of land grant uni's produces middle class workers who are typcially conservative in nature. We don't have a donor base of doctors and lawyers. Yes thats somewhat of a broad generalization, but I'm just offering my realist opinion from afar.

[mramseyISU]

Also, Arrowhead is less then 1.5 hours from both locations and it helps when this rivalry is one the oldest in the country.

The oldest or so we're lead to believe growing up down there.

[LeSchmick]

you should know better than to ever question ISU fan's attendance trends... you will get digitally tarred and feathered while getting a plethora of excuses.... the economy, a late harvest, games are too late for the kids to be up, holiday shopping, coming off a 2-10 year, dislike of Pollard, the casual sports fan in Iowa is following the hawkeyes this year, the calendar turns from october to november, game not being part of some mini-pack, 2012 is right around the corner, you name it, it's on here. To paraphrase comments by Andy Fales recently, there are what, 5 to 6 homes games in an entire year in a state with no pro teams and talk of football all year long. Even here on CF there will be several dozen threads about football predictions, starting line-ups etc.. until next august, reading CF you'd think we are Nebraska or Ohio State. I think there is a dillusion amongst many on here that think our fanbase can hang with the big boys. It can't. It will never happen. People keep saying, "oh once we start winning, we'll be getting 55000 or 60000 at the Jack." Uh, hello? we had a winning team going into the Mizzou game this year, yet couldn't surpass 45000 for the last 2 home games. What are people waiting for? Next year, the "hard" south schedule will be a convenient excuse. There simply aren't enough people in Iowa interested in ISU football to put 50000-60000 in the Jack consistently. Unless there is a mass migration of ISU alum ex-pats back to Iowa, it will never happen. K-State, Ok. State, Colorado State all have the same problems, whats the common theme here? we're all the land grant universities of each state with big brother in the state soaking up more of the general interest. T. Boone Pickens aside, the mission of land grant uni's produces middle class workers who are typcially conservative in nature. We don't have a donor base of doctors and lawyers. Yes thats somewhat of a broad generalization, but I'm just offering my realist opinion from afar.

touche salesman

[cstrunk]

yeah well good luck at your goal...also its easy to get 70000 to a game within 30 miles of where everyone lives!!!!

the truth of the matter is that kstate fans dont travel very well even if its 2 hours away....I hope that the grate jamie never goes this route again....

isu could have beaten ksu in ames and we could be headed to phoenix rite now!!!!!!!

..........and remember guys/gals....BUY some basketball tickets and go to Hilton..............

I'm not sure if you understand the definition of the word "truth" or not, or if you were even at this game, but I was at the game and I can attest to the fact that K-State had just as many (and I even think they had more) fans as we did.

[cstrunk]

First of all, please use paragraphs next time....

you should know better than to ever question ISU fan's attendance trends... you will get digitally tarred and feathered while getting a plethora of excuses.... the economy, a late harvest, games are too late for the kids to be up, holiday shopping, coming off a 2-10 year, dislike of Pollard, the casual sports fan in Iowa is following the hawkeyes this year, the calendar turns from october to november, game not being part of some mini-pack, 2012 is right around the corner, you name it, it's on here.

While you grossly over-exaggerated here, it is true that many of those "excuses" are indeed valid reasons why attendance is not reaching fullest potential. Because we are not considered a "winning team", any reason seemingly insignificant to some, can prevent many people from attending games.

To paraphrase comments by Andy Fales recently, there are what, 5 to 6 homes games in an entire year in a state with no pro teams and talk of football all year long. Even here on CF there will be several dozen threads about football predictions, starting line-ups etc.. until next august, reading CF you'd think we are Nebraska or Ohio State. I think there is a dillusion amongst many on here that think our fanbase can hang with the big boys. It can't. It will never happen. People keep saying, "oh once we start winning, we'll be getting 55000 or 60000 at the Jack." Uh, hello? we had a winning team going into the Mizzou game this year, yet couldn't surpass 45000 for the last 2 home games. What are people waiting for?

When you say "winning team", it sounds like we had a team with 8, 9, or 10 wins already heading into the last game of the season. We were 6-5. Good for us recently, but hardly a nationally relevant team generating a ton of national publicity. Get back to me about being able to draw in crowds to Jack Trice after we have a few seasons in a ROW of 8, 9, or better win seasons.

Next year, the "hard" south schedule will be a convenient excuse. There simply aren't enough people in Iowa interested in ISU football to put 50000-60000 in the Jack consistently. Unless there is a mass migration of ISU alum ex-pats back to Iowa, it will never happen.

Wrong. Winning (better than 6-6 or 7-5 on a consistent basis) will bring in bandwagon non-alumni fans. See Iowa. This is not a put-down to anyone, but it's true that winning teams will have many more fans that have no affiliation with the university. It's not a bad thing.

K-State, Ok. State, Colorado State all have the same problems, whats the common theme here? we're all the land grant universities of each state with big brother in the state soaking up more of the general interest. T. Boone Pickens aside, the mission of land grant uni's produces middle class workers who are typcially conservative in nature. We don't have a donor base of doctors and lawyers. Yes thats somewhat of a broad generalization, but I'm just offering my realist opinion from afar.

You're right. We don't have doctors and lawyers. But we do have veterinarians, engineers, architects, business people, farmers, future bandwagoners, etc. that are capable of creating a solid donor base. But it won't happen until we can create enough interest in ISU athletics by having at least 5-10 years of winning. Not 6-6 here, 7-5 there, 9-3 once, divided by 4-8, 2-10 seasons. I'm talking 6-6 or 7-5 seasons that are considered bad seasons, not good seasons. The solution is winning, and it's not an unreachable one.

[Tornado man]

To paraphrase comments by Andy Phales recently, there are what, 5 to 6 homes games in an entire year in a state with no pro teams and talk of football all year long.

Using judgements by Andy Phales in a post about low attendance makes me dizzy.
Uh...like he's ever bought a Cyclone FB ticket?

[GoShow97]

History is your friend.

[frontrangeclone]

First of all, please use paragraphs next time....

Cstrunk- I hope I'm wrong with this and you prove me wrong in every point.

I'll be better about paragraphs next time, too. Perhaps I can even do bullet points.

This is a classic argument of chicken v. egg... At what point does that "solid donor base" pick up? does it have to be football to ignite it? Does ISU have to be nationally relevant to draw bigger crowds? Our biggest crowds historically have been when UNI, UI, or kNU have helped out with 10k or more fans of their own. McCarney more less owned Iowa in his tenure from 98 to 02, did that sway all the non-alumni of either state school towards ISU?

With an aging population in Iowa and predicted declines in state population overall (sans immigrants), do you really think there will be thousands of new bandwagon jumpers when ISU hits that 9 win season? Perhaps with Ames receiving nice rankings in various "places to live polls" the population in the town will increase, but as far as national trends go, I doubt it.

[cstrunk]

Cstrunk- I hope I'm wrong with this and you prove me wrong in every point.

I'll be better about paragraphs next time, too. Perhaps I can even do bullet points.



This is a classic argument of chicken v. egg... At what point does that "solid donor base" pick up? does it have to be football to ignite it? Does ISU have to be nationally relevant to draw bigger crowds?

Good question. My opinion and I think many people would agree, is that you need to have success (multiple years of winning seasons in a row) before you are able to draw good crowds consistently.

Our biggest crowds historically have been when UNI, UI, or kNU have helped out with 10k or more fans of their own. McCarney more less owned Iowa in his tenure from 98 to 02, did that sway all the non-alumni of either state school towards ISU?

Winning against in-state schools helps, but I don't think it sways that many people one way or the other. I think consistent success is the larger factor. We just haven't had consistent success really anywhere in our history. We've had a few good years now and then, but with decades of losing in between, those few years don't really add up to much.

With an aging population in Iowa and predicted declines in state population overall (sans immigrants), do you really think there will be thousands of new bandwagon jumpers when ISU hits that 9 win season? Perhaps with Ames receiving nice rankings in various "places to live polls" the population in the town will increase, but as far as national trends go, I doubt it.

Like I've said, it's going to take more than one good season. We had a good season a decade ago and it didn't make us a national power. It was certainly good for our program and helped, but you've got to have consistent success for a period of time before you start to gain those extra fans in and outside of Iowa.

[Kitkat]

This rivalry is a little different than ISU/KSU........ These two teams hate each other of course this game is gonna draw better than ours did

Right, in fact some KU fans would rather, much rather, beat Mizzou than K-State.

[kucyclone]

Right, in fact some KU fans would rather, much rather, beat Mizzou than K-State.

I think almost every KU fan would rather beat Mizzou than KSU.

[CyBobby]

I think almost every KU fan would rather beat Mizzou than KSU.

The way I look at this post is real simple....Any self respecting alumni loving Kansas fan who does NOT want to beat mizzou over kstate....well that said fan ....Must be a Closet Kansas State Fan!!!!

Anyone who has ever been to Kansas U knows that jhawk fans would rather beat mizzou than anyone else on their schedule...thats why they play it the last game of every season!!!!

btw i attended several season ending KU-MU football games with a rabid KU fan and sat in the KU section at farout field in columbia.

i can attest that the hatred runs deep...and it should!!!!!!!!

[IzzoClone]

The hatred runs back to the Civil War.

"On August 21, 1863, during the American Civil War, Confederate guerrillas led by William Quantrill burned most of the houses and commercial buildings in Lawrence and killed 150 to 200 of the men they found in the Lawrence MassacreOn August 21, 1863, during the American Civil War, Confederate guerrillas led by William Quantrill burned most of the houses and commercial buildings in Lawrence and killed 150 to 200 of the men they found in the Lawrence Massacre"

[supertone]

The hatred runs back to the Civil War.

"On August 21, 1863, during the American Civil War, Confederate guerrillas led by William Quantrill burned most of the houses and commercial buildings in Lawrence and killed 150 to 200 of the men they found in the Lawrence MassacreOn August 21, 1863, during the American Civil War, Confederate guerrillas led by William Quantrill burned most of the houses and commercial buildings in Lawrence and killed 150 to 200 of the men they found in the Lawrence Massacre"

That was a big event, but that was not the start, nor the end of the Missouri/kansas feud. It was a retaliation for actions of the terrorist group known as the jayhawkers. They murdered hundreds of innocent Missourians in the name of faux righteousness. They even murdered Union Soldiers and their families because they lived in Missouri but claimed to be Northern sympathizers. It is amazing in this PC world they can still use a jayhawk as a mascot.