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» 2008 Iowa State Mens Basketball
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Old 03-03-2008, 01:36 PM   #1
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Post Raising The Bar vs Hanging The Noose

Raising The Bar vs Hanging The Noose
CycloneFanatic.com
Jeremy Lind
3/3/08

Note - this is long and wordy but it's something that I think needs to be out there. I realize most of the fan-base agrees with me on this topic but I still feel the need to make a point.


I'm going to start by saying that I created CycloneFanatic at a time when I thought Iowa State athletics was about to hit rock bottom. Two years ago we were witnessing the demise of Men's Basketball, not because of the win/loss record, but because of the work ethic and type of players and coaches that we were getting. The staff didn't push the players and the recruits weren't necessarily kids I'd want my kids hanging around. Similarly, in Football we were seeing about 50% of our recruiting classes never show up come school time. The work ethic wasn't necessarily what it was in the early Mac years and the constant lack of credible wins was getting old.

The reason for this post and the above comments is simple, Iowa State fans need a quick history lesson before hanging the noose on what could be the best combination of coaching staffs we've ever seen.

Let's face it, Iowa State has always been mediocre at both Men's Basketball and Football. We had some good years not too long ago, but overall the history of the programs has been anything but meaningful in terms of conference championships, the natural measure of success. I'm not making light of all the individual performances and accomplishments, I'm just stating that overall we've been a middle of the pack school at best when you look at the overall history of Iowa State. It's much better to remember the good times, and there have been a few, but it's far more realistic to look at the history as a whole to understand what is going on today and what that means for tomorrow.

Men's Basketball - The Past Decade

Many Iowa State fans will remember the late 90's and early 00's as incredible times for the Men's Basketball program. We beat some impressive teams and we accomplished what we always strive for, winning conference championships. Since those runs, Iowa State has had two coaching changes that were forced, at least partially, by scandal. Everybody has a different opinion on the circumstances that surrounded both changes, but in the end, they both happened. With the most recent coaching change, it was obvious to everybody close to the program that things were not going as smoothly as one would have been led to believe by the media or the coaching staff.

This site started in late February 2006 when I became overly worried about the direction of the Men's Basketball program. I had several contacts that were relaying stories of players not traveling with the team, players not practicing because they just didn't want to, coaches allowing the players to tell them what to do, etc. It was painfully obvious that the coaching staff wasn't doing what was needed more than anything, discipline the young athletes that were the public ambassadors for Iowa State. It was merely a matter of time before things got even worse in more public ways, especially if you look at what has become of several of their future recruits. The on the court success was slipping and it was obvious to almost everybody that there was no light at the end of the tunnel. There is a lot more to the story but those things don't really need to be made public.

Football - An Era Of Almost

For 12 years Iowa State fans stood by Dan McCarney because he was a good guy and never made us worry about him embarrassing us or doing anything unethical. He gave us hope early on and did what the casual fan worries about far too much, beat Iowa repeatedly. He wasn't the best offensive mind to ever step on the grass of Jack Trice but he did enough of the right things to make many overlook the things he couldn't accomplish. After things looked like they had plateaud long ago, Iowa State fans finally demanded change, and rightfully so. Dan had done us proud but it was time for new blood.

Today - Tomorrow

Right now Iowa State is in as big of transition period as it's ever seen. With new coaches at three of the four big programs, wins are cherished more than ever and losses are expected against opponents we otherwise would hope to pound. It's normal to be down and depressed when things aren't going the way they had just a few years ago, but it's important to remember what has caused Iowa State to excel in the past - hard work and overachieving. Was there ever a time in the past year or two of the previous coaching eras where you felt we had overachieved and accomplished something special? I don't, not one bit.

When Jamie Pollard set out to get a new Men's Basketball coach and a new Football coach, he set out to get the best coaches possible that were above all else, well thought of and highly credible. He knew that what Iowa State needed most was a coaching staff that people could look up to and know that they were doing the right thing. I would put big money on the bet that Iowa State's coaching staffs would NEVER allow anything like you see going on in Iowa City happen in Ames. That's not because they're just good coaches, that's because they know that integrity and credibility is all that matters when you go in to recruit's houses and sit with their families. They know that the fans deserve more than a never ending police blotter and they expect the most out of their players - both on and off the field/court.

With coaching staffs in place that have drastically different ideas on how programs are built than their predecessors, it's normal to see some turn-over in players and it's expected that there will be a few growing pains and down years why the programs rebuild. In Iowa State's case, the rebuilding is far more drastic than the average job, in my opinion. Not only are you having to dig out of a huge hole as far as talent goes, you have to do it without having much previous success to build on. In essence you have to built a foundation and program from scratch with fans that aren't wanting to give you time to even survey the land. There are obvious time constraints on how long it should take to rebuild a program, but one needs to remember that in our case the old foundation has to be completely removed before you can build the new one in it's place. You can't just build a new program on top of a crumbling foundation and be confident of the future (see Kansas State MBB or Iowa Football).

As Iowa State rebuilds it's foundation and starts to get more and more wins, it's obvious that the fans should keep raising the bar and expecting more. the only problem is when that bar is raised too quickly or too high and a noose is hung from it. With 2 years of the McDermott era almost done, it's easy to say we haven't gotten very far when you only look at the win/loss record. Of course you would also have to be blind not to see all of the problems that have been out of the hands of the coaching staff that have hindered the process. Do I hate going to a game and see us score under 15 points in a half against Nebraska? Hell yes. Do I understand that we're not playing with a full deck? Absolutely. I'm ready for another conference crown but I'm not about to join the small legion of fans that want to run a coaching staff out of town because they're doing things the right way instead of the quick way.

My point is this...

Remember that there is a difference between raising the bar and hanging a noose. If you want Iowa State to be a top-tier program, you have to realize that it takes time. Yeah I get tired of saying "next year" or "it takes time" but I've been a fan my whole life and I've never seen a complete staff as highly thought of throughout all of college sports as we have right now and I know that is a sign of what lays ahead. I don't have to worry about "if" we'll get better with the staff we have in place, I only have to worry about how long it's going to take to get all the right players in place. Am I hungry for wins? More than anybody, but I'm not about to put the pressure on the staffs that cause problems like they have in Iowa City right now. When you raise the bar too high, too quickly, you get far more than you bargained for.

There are some incredibly talented coaches throughout the country and I wouldn't trade any of our coaches for any of them. I have complete faith that we're on the right path. It might be a long path that isn't always bright early on but it's a path that leads us somewhere other than to a new coaching staff or public humility. We might not have headlines announcing major wins for another couple years, but we also won't have headlines questioning the integrity of our staff or our programs. We might not be Indiana at #12 in the country, but we also won't be Indiana looking for a new coach to replace the disgraced one. We might not be great, but we will be.

At this point in time, I would even go out on a limb and put myself out there to the public ridicule of suggesting a contract extension for GMac and Chizik. That's how confident I am that Iowa State will succeed. I hear it from others in the conference and the midwest, we're damn lucky to have the coaches we have and anybody that wants change is setting themselves up for some drastic letdowns.

A program isn't built on one player and it doesn't succeed because of one player, thus a program won't fail if it doesn't get that one player.


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Old 03-03-2008, 01:56 PM   #2
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Re: Raising The Bar vs Hanging The Noose

good thoughts...agree with MOST of what you say
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Old 03-03-2008, 02:00 PM   #3
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Re: Raising The Bar vs Hanging The Noose

Good read.
I think if you don't see the foundation being installed then you are blind. Its just really hard on fans to be bad right now.
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Old 03-03-2008, 02:16 PM   #4
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Re: Raising The Bar vs Hanging The Noose

Jer, its great to see you writing again. This is great stuff to entertain and debate over on this site.

With that said, I completely disagree with everything you said (what someone has to!). O.K. just kidding, good stuff, keep it up.

"You must try to generate happiness within yourself. If you aren't happy in one place, chances are you won't be happy anyplace." -- Ernie Banks

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Old 03-03-2008, 03:46 PM   #5
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Re: Raising The Bar vs Hanging The Noose

I agree with you Jeremy Immensly. Good things come to those who wait

Occam's Razor means 'With all things being equal , the simplest explanation/answer is normally the right one'
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Old 03-03-2008, 04:15 PM   #6
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Re: Raising The Bar vs Hanging The Noose

I agree with your general theme that it's too early to know what we have with these coaches but parts of it didn't sit right with me. First, I think you're being a little too dismissive of the McCarney era and our great basketball teams. McCarney accomplished a lot more than just being a good guy. ISU football rarely even approached mediocrity before he came here and those teams of Floyd and Eustachy did more than beat impressive teams they WERE the impressive teams of the conference.

Second, McDermott and Chizik have accomplished nothing yet. We don't need to talk about firing them but is that any less rational than saying you wouldn't trade them for any other coach in the country?

Anyway, good piece and it got me thinking.
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Old 03-03-2008, 04:50 PM   #7
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Re: Raising The Bar vs Hanging The Noose

Very good article. I think people see other successful teams play and try to make comparison to ISU. You can't do that, this is ISU it's not a metro, warm sunny destination with tradition. If you'd like that I'm sure there's now room on the USC bandwagon.

A side affect of calls for "change", "early success" or whatever is the affect on decision making. I'd like to believe our coaches are not susceptible to this, but after a while they may have opportunities presented to them that may be a quick fix and pass on longer developing, greater potential opportunities. An example of that is KSU's recruiting class this year that's full of JUCO's. That's simply an attempt by the coach to keep his job with the hopes of surprise success.

Coaches that come into programs and have early success are the beneficiaries of a combination of good decision making, but mostly luck. Our staff has just not had that yet. In time they will. Good things come to those who wait.



The contents of this post are in no way the reflections of the thoughts or opinions of any other organization or individual other than isugcs

Originally Posted by weR138
The website is called Cyclone Fanatic still right? They didn't change it to Cyclone Cautiously Realistic did they?
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Old 03-03-2008, 04:59 PM   #8
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Re: Raising The Bar vs Hanging The Noose

Without a doubt, we have one of the most ethical group of coaches in the country. The word should be out that they are straight shooters.

EIU is the other Okoboji University for serious students and home of Captain Kirk who pilots the Enterprise on its Trek through the Universe for finding his next great job. Captain, beware of your Superbowl.
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Old 03-03-2008, 05:04 PM   #9
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Re: Raising The Bar vs Hanging The Noose

Good post.

I'm not an expert on sports, but I did stay in a Holiday Inn Express last night
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Old 03-03-2008, 05:21 PM   #10
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Re: Raising The Bar vs Hanging The Noose

I've tried hard to not post when I'm upset about MBB (which is almost daily) because negativity breeds more negativity and that's not what we need right now. Am I happy about where we are at the end of year two? No. But I'm also not ready to hang the noose either. Next year is an important step for our program no matter what anyone says...if we don't get more wins next year, any success we have in year four may not matter as much because we might be another mediocre class in the hole.

And let's not all forget that recruiting is the real measure of a succesfull program. You give John Wooden average players he ain't winning no conference championships.
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Old 03-03-2008, 05:31 PM   #11
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Re: Raising The Bar vs Hanging The Noose

So the question is,...........how long do you wait on Men's Bball. If next year is more of the same does that change anything? What is the cut off point. I'm not saying get rid of Greg, just curious what people have in mind in terms of expectations.
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Old 03-03-2008, 05:36 PM   #12
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Re: Raising The Bar vs Hanging The Noose

I think you seriously have to give the MBB staff through 2011. I know that is a hell of a long time but the circumstances are much different this time around and I honestly think it would take anybody that long to get us to be competitive for the number one through three spots in the conference with as tough as the league is. It's going to take the next two recruiting classes to fill some holes and then another class or two for depth.

Pick your jaws back up off the floor (:smile) because I honestly believe the staff is the right fit, it's just a matter of getting the players they need.

A program isn't built on one player and it doesn't succeed because of one player, thus a program won't fail if it doesn't get that one player.


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Old 03-03-2008, 05:39 PM   #13
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Re: Raising The Bar vs Hanging The Noose

Good question Lenny...I for one, expect to see progression and improvement from Wesley (if healthy), Craig, and Diante...I also expect to finally get a glimpse of what Greg wants to do here, and how he wants to play. Because barring injuries and horrible luck again (knock on wood), we will finally have a roster that consists of nearly all of his players. We'll still be young, but do to improved guard play, and an offseason of lifting for our younger talented players, we should be better. Losing Jiri and Rahshon will hurt, but I believe we'll see some improvement next year, and finally get a sense of where things are headed. Just my opinion.
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Old 03-03-2008, 05:42 PM   #14
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Re: Raising The Bar vs Hanging The Noose

I think you'll see a much better team by this time next year. Craig and Wesley have to develop, Diante has to get in the game mentally and work on his shot and Lucca has to be half as good as he's been in practice. If we get some decent scoring out of the newbies, we should be looking like a decent team, albeit not always a stellar team. We're going to have problems down low but we should be pretty good from long-range and mid-range. Brackins has to improve by leaps and bounds though because he has some serious talent, he just needs to get fierce and learn to be more aggressive at the right time.

A program isn't built on one player and it doesn't succeed because of one player, thus a program won't fail if it doesn't get that one player.


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Old 03-03-2008, 05:43 PM   #15
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Re: Raising The Bar vs Hanging The Noose

Another thing I would like to say is that nobody that is saying McDermott needs time is giving the guy a free pass...player development and solid effort on the court is still expected, as well as good behavior off the court and in the classroom. It's just tough to win, when you don't have the people to do it yet...or when you're very young (without McD's all-americans).
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