ISU Men’s Basketball Observations – 11/11/06

benjay · 11-11-2006, 12:36 PM

Cory's first-half quick spin from the post and around the back side of the hoop (underneath and in) was one of the sweetest post plays I have ever seen. I'm excited about his future as a Cyclone.

Jeremy · 11-11-2006, 12:55 PM

Originally Posted by clonestotop

How you can say that Cory Johnson has better offensive skills than Brunner puzzles me. I would love it if he did and when its all said and done he may. But to compare a true freshman to a first team all big 10 guy and 4 year started is premature. Brunner had a good offensive game and could knock down some jumpers. Now if Johnson works hard he could be there, but its to early to say if his offensive skills will be better than Bru's

I understand what you're saying but with that idea of thought you could never compare anybody until they've played the same number of games. I'm trying to make a comparison of who I think he reminds me of and who others have said they remind them of. I'm not trying to say Brunner wasn't a decent player, I was just trying to make a comparison on the styles of play and perceived talent level that we have witnessed thus far.

clonestotop · 11-11-2006, 12:59 PM

Perceived talent level after one game and 2 exhibition games? And no conference games where he is playing against real talent? Now don't get me wrong I want Johnson to be a complete stud as much as everybody else and think he can be, but comparing to another person who was a four year starter and all conference is very premature considering he has played one college game and it was against uc-riverside. The guy is tough and has great footwork that draws comparison to Brunner but thats all as of this time

colocy · 11-11-2006, 01:14 PM

Originally Posted by Jeremy

One thing to remember about Taylor is that he was extremely excited to just get in the game. This has been his dream come true experience and he was overly pumped up for most of the game. He'll settle down as the weekend goes on and play like a much more controlled and unselfish player. He wanted to come out with a bang and he made a few mistakes.

When people say he is like Stinson 2.0, I would have to agree but to the fact that he in my opinion is better than Stinson. Their styles of play are similar but Taylor in my opinion has better ball control. He didn't show it last night but I think as the season goes on he'll show a level of play that we had anticipated Stinson to get to by his Junior year. Not to dog on Stinson but he showed much more his Freshman and Sophomore seasons than he did as a Junior.

People want to think Stinson was one of our greatest players ever but he never even got close to that level of play that he was capable of. I think Taylor comes in to show us what Stinson could have been.

Again, this is just my opinion and nothing more.

I'm sorry, but that is impossible to say at this point, just like what you said about Cory Johnson. I personally liked Stinson, and he could get selfish sometimes, but I think it's impossible to say that Taylor is better than Stinson after 1 game. That just seems insane to me.

chengyushen · 11-11-2006, 01:15 PM

should Jereme be excited about last night's game? Should you give such high comments to this team? All in all, they just beat a low major team thet went 5-24 last year.

Jeremy · 11-11-2006, 01:17 PM

Originally Posted by colocy

I'm sorry, but that is impossible to say at this point, just like what you said about Cory Johnson. I personally liked Stinson, and he could get selfish sometimes, but I think it's impossible to say that Taylor is better than Stinson after 1 game. That just seems insane to me.

You guys are taking my comparisons out of context. If you don't try and compare players, how in the heck do you try to get your point across on who they remind you of? If you would rather me not compare players I won't but I think you'd have a hard time trying to talk about any player if you can't compare and contrast. I'm not saying you need to agree with my opinions but that doesn't make them impossible either.

colocy · 11-11-2006, 01:19 PM

You can simply say he reminds me of "so-and-so", and not come out and blatently say "person x" is better than "person y (who was a 3 or 4 year starter) after one game.

And I didn't take your quote out of context, I posted your entire quote and you said exactly what I said you said. So no, I am not taking your quote out of context.

CrossCyed · 11-11-2006, 01:19 PM

I didn't think there was any way Clark was 100% last nite. He was spending extra time stretching and he was limping at times.

Jeremy · 11-11-2006, 01:21 PM

Originally Posted by colocy

You can simply say he reminds me of "so-and-so", and not come out and blatently say "person x" is better than "person y (who was a 3 or 4 year starter) after one game.

Did you not read the dozens of times in the past day or two that I've said "IN MY OPINION"? I guess I can only please so many people but to say I have to say reminds me of instead of is similar to is ridiculous. Are you guys that bored that you can't read a whole post to see the numerous references to that being my opinion and nothing more? I can start putting the following disclaimer on my posts if you would like...

NOTE: This post is only my opinion and does not make reference to anybody being better than anybody else as a matter of fact. Any mention of or a comparison of past players is simply coincidental and should not be taken as the spoken word of God stating that player X is better than player Y.

Jeremy · 11-11-2006, 01:24 PM

Originally Posted by CrossCyed

I didn't think there was any way Clark was 100% last nite. He was spending extra time stretching and he was limping at times.

I agree. He'll will settle in and play better once he gets used to everybody but he also has to get back to feeling 100% before that happens. I've talked to a lot of people that say he's still suffering a bit form his injury but he's so eager to play and get things going that he won't just give it time to heal on the sidelines. That's a good thing and a bad thing.

NOTE: This post is only my opinion and does not make reference to anybody being better than anybody else as a matter of fact. Any mention of or a comparison of past players is simply coincidental and should not be taken as the spoken word of God stating that player X is better than player Y.

colocy · 11-11-2006, 01:29 PM

Listen, what are you talking about, I realize it's your opinion, and it's my OPINION that your opinion is insane. Did I ever say you couldn't say he was better, that's well within you're right and if you want to that's fine, just in my opinion it isn't accurate.

And you asked a question, I responded. You asked "If you don't try and compare players, how in the heck do you try to get your point across on who they remind you of?" And I responded, you could say he simply reminds me of whoever, that to me would seem more sensible, in my opinion.

clonestotop · 11-11-2006, 01:46 PM

colocy..i completed agree. Jeremy, you jumped all over these players after one game. After one year we thought stinson was the next tinsley. look how that turned out. You can say this guy reminds me of this guy and we would all understand it. I mean the guy is a tough 6'7 guy who has good footwork and mediocre athletic ability. That reminds you of Bru. Fair assesment. To say he is better offensively skilled is arroneous

Jeremy · 11-11-2006, 02:03 PM

Originally Posted by clonestotop

colocy..i completed agree. Jeremy, you jumped all over these players after one game. After one year we thought stinson was the next tinsley. look how that turned out. You can say this guy reminds me of this guy and we would all understand it. I mean the guy is a tough 6'7 guy who has good footwork and mediocre athletic ability. That reminds you of Bru. Fair assesment. To say he is better offensively skilled is arroneous

But I said in my opinion he was better offensively, I didn't say it was a matter of fact. You agreed that I can have my opinion but then you say if my opinion is that he is better offensively then it is erroneous. That is inconsistent.

If you want to argue about talent, here you go...

What is it about Stinson, as this thread originally debated, made it so you thought he was "great"? To me, Stinson was nothing above average for a Big XII starting guard. He made far more mistakes with the ball than a "great" ball handler would, he was more inconsistent and moody than just about any guard I've seen, he was more selfish than TO, and he either skipped or didn't participate in about 80% of practices.

Now while all but the last thing are just opinions, I would argue anybody that Stinson was never a great player and that's a shame because I really think he could have been if he tried. The guy was the future of ISU MBB and he never showed up, period. He was nothing above a decent player and I would have traded his ego and attitude for just about any other decent player that had a desire to play as a team and prove he was better than the hype rather than just all hype.

Now maybe I'm a little more passionate and factual about my opinions but that's because I often have things I've heard from other players or people close to the players that can skew my opinions some. When I say somebody this early is comparable to a previous player, it's often based partly on things I've heard and seen outside of just the 40 minutes of action on the court. Maybe Taylor will end up being a wash, but maybe he'll end up be a great player like he shows potential of being. Only time will tell but message boards are for opinions and debating and this one is no different.

cgwarrior33 · 11-11-2006, 02:05 PM

OK. As I saw the comment, I don't think Jeremy was comparing CJ to Brunner as a senior. I think he was comparing Brunner as a freshman to CJ. Come on guys, I know Jeremy is optimistic and upbeat, but I do not think he is a lunatic! :)

Also, CJ does have range out to the 20 feet so he has that part of his game. Also, some reports that I have heard say that Brunner hates Belgium and is ready to come home....just for what its worth.

colocy · 11-11-2006, 02:15 PM

I guess you really have a strong disdain for Stinson, I never said he was great, I said I liked him. As for the skipping or not participating in 80 percent of the practices, I find that very hard to believe. I'm not saying your a liar, but it's just hard to believe.

I said you can have your opinion, but in my opinion you are wrong, that is not inconsistent that is what I think. I'm sure you disagree with my opinion but I have the right to have it don't I?

I never said Jeremy was a lunatic, I like his site a lot. I think some of the things he says are a little overly-optimistic and some I think are just wrong, but I appreciate the way he maintains this web site and the hard work he puts into it.