CycloneNotables: Coaching Search Update - 11/17

cyflyer · 11-17-2006, 12:18 PM

Originally Posted by JCloned

Sorry, but you don't get it. I was one of the first ones pumping Harbaugh and I don't give a rats behind about his name. Change his name to tweedle dee and he is still my leader. I like that he grew up "coaching" football. I like that he played at highest levels of college football. I like that he played in NFL under several great coaches and schemes. I like his experience recruiting when he was assistant coach. I like that he has been a head coach and has had success as a head coach. Most of all I like that he has these things and he is exceptionally driven, passionate and dedicated. The name its a bonus for recruiting, but I wouldn't hire a name.

A majority of what you just posted has to due with who he is in regards to JH the former NFL QB. There are plenty of coaches at the Div1AA scholarship level and non-scholarship level that have similer values as JH. You're not going to convince many people that because of who is was before coaching is not the major reason for people liking him. For all we know his 'name' is what has brought decent Div1AA non-scholarship talent to USD. He also has a very experienced OC that has 21 years of NFL time. It's hard to believe that he would follow JH. It's easy to believe he's retired to San Diego and continuing to coach because of the proximity to the Pacific Coast. If JH is all that, why has he not been picked up as a QB coach or Coordinator at the NFL level? The reason would be because he want's to be a college head coach. Could be but that's the lesser of what I believe he wants and that's an NFL coaching position.

CDCclone · 11-17-2006, 12:33 PM

Originally Posted by Stormin

Harbaugh's Dad was once an assistant at University of Iowa, and Jim lived in the Midwest growing up. College ball at Michigan and then pros at Chicago, Indianapolis.

Deace pointed out that ISU needs to get a coach who can recruit. I think we get that in both Harbaugh and Brewster. Brewster is an ace recruiter with NO Head Coaching experience. Harbaugh has had recruiting experience with his Dad's program and some limited recruiting at San Diego and does have Head Coaching experience and the experience of organizing a staff and a full program (very small program, ultra successful one though).

Deace also pointed out that he thought Mac actually wasn't that bad of a coach, but that he was coaching recruiting classes that ranked usually tenth or lower in the Big XII. That ISU is in the middle of a "No Man's Land". That the next coach is going to have to be able to recruit Chicago, Minneapolis, Detroit, and the Midwest in addition to talent rich Texas, Florida, etc.

Which is why I think Pollard might be pointing to Harbaugh. Chicago? Played there. Detroit? College in Michigan. Midwest? Heart of Big Ten country. (I remember Earle Bruce had a pipeline to Ohio like you couldn't believe. Also Chicago. (Did somebody say Boskey brothers?) Assistants could help him in Texas and Florida. And Harbaugh would probably be able to recruit talent rich California.

As mentioned earlier, I think all of the candidates are pretty good. Just that Harbaugh is the "sexy" hire that comes with probably greatest risk. So it's 4th and One. What do we do? Play safe....or go for it.

I have been losing increasing respect for Deace. I used to watch him on the Mediacom CyHawk show, but over the last few months I have seen him repeatedly bash ISU for having a bad coach (I understood his criticisms), then basically say that ISU was wrong for firing McCarney after his press conference, and this week he criticized our potential new coaches in a somewhat self-righteous manner. I realize we don’t have that many media personalities discussing ISU sports in the state, but frankly I’m tired of his hypocrisy. Especially on the CyHawk show where Jon clearly is a true Iowa Hawkeye fan and it is obvious that the Cyclones to Deace are only a topic of discussion for which he his responsible each week. I don’t mind criticisms of ISU, but at least have the best interest of the school at heart. Sorry, I may be the only one that he bothers but I just got fed up with him on his show this week and I’m done listening to him.

mt85 · 11-17-2006, 12:40 PM

Keeping things in perspective. Drake is the second best team in the Pioneer league at 6-1 and San Diego is 7-0. JH is having success, but it is at a whole different level. JH may be able to get it done at ISU, but he will also be facing a totally different caliber of coaches. It is an unknow if he will be able to make the adjustment. That definitely raises the risk level.

JokersWild · 11-17-2006, 12:42 PM

I don't think Harbaugh is a slam dunk by anymeans. Risk for sure.

JCloned · 11-17-2006, 01:38 PM

Originally Posted by cyflyer

A majority of what you just posted has to due with who he is in regards to JH the former NFL QB. There are plenty of coaches at the Div1AA scholarship level and non-scholarship level that have similer values as JH. You're not going to convince many people that because of who is was before coaching is not the major reason for people liking him. For all we know his 'name' is what has brought decent Div1AA non-scholarship talent to USD. He also has a very experienced OC that has 21 years of NFL time. It's hard to believe that he would follow JH. It's easy to believe he's retired to San Diego and continuing to coach because of the proximity to the Pacific Coast. If JH is all that, why has he not been picked up as a QB coach or Coordinator at the NFL level? The reason would be because he want's to be a college head coach. Could be but that's the lesser of what I believe he wants and that's an NFL coaching position.

You miss my point...yes it is about who he is and what he has done...it is not the celeb factor. Do I want John Elway as a coach no and he has a better name. It is about what he has done that makes him interesting. Combine that with his approach and now I get excited.

To me a guy like Kragthorpe is mid risk medium reward kind of pick. He will be successful as a head coach at a bigger school. Looking at his results I don't know if he is a guy that could turn out to be a perenial BCS coach. He is good and relatively safe (any coaching hire in football is a risk)

A guy like Brewster is high risk and unknown on the reward front because he has never been anything but a position coach . Can he handle game plans, leading a team and a staff? No track record to hang your hat on for that.

The attitude and experience that Harbaugh brings to me makes him a high risk and high reward pick. He could flame out and be over his head. He also has the types of characteristics as well as track record that lead me to believe he could turn out to be a premier coach. Personally, I am tired of middle of the road results and would rather risk a setback than settle for safe. I would rather swing for the fences and accept some risk for a guy I believe could, and I emphasize could, be great.

Land Shark · 11-17-2006, 01:38 PM

Kragthorpe is considered one of the best coaches in the country RIGHT NOW by coaches and media alike. He is on an entirely different level than the other candidates and they are a good pool of interviews IMO.

Kragthorpe will get a high profile job or an NFL job before any of the other candidates. He is a man af great integrity and faith and we will hate ourselves if we pass on him and he is available.

Think Tim Floyd w/ a much larger moral compass.

BTW- he can recruit well too!

CYKO TY · 11-17-2006, 01:40 PM

Originally Posted by JokersWild

I don't think Harbaugh is a slam dunk by anymeans. Risk for sure.

As with many things, you must take a risk to experiance a reward. Sometimes the bigger the risk....the bigger the reward. Remember that Stoops was a risk for OU and look how that turned out.

JCloned · 11-17-2006, 01:41 PM

Originally Posted by Land Shark

Kragthorpe is considered one of the best coaches in the country RIGHT NOW by coaches and media alike. He is on an entirely different level than the other candidates and they are a good pool of interviews IMO.

Kragthorpe will get a high profile job or an NFL job before any of the other candidates. He is a man af great integrity and faith and we will hate ourselves if we pass on him and he is available.

Think Tim Floyd w/ a much larger moral compass.

BTW- he can recruit well too!

Why is he only 7-3 and lost to Rice last week if he is really all that and a bag of chips?

jtdoyle1 · 11-17-2006, 01:43 PM

Coaches with big "splash" names often fail to match the hype and some no-name coaches (i.e. Ferentz) pass expectations. The key is finding a good coach that fits with your institution and can assemble succesful staff and players.

Wesley · 11-17-2006, 01:44 PM

Harbaugh could easily fly in and out today from San Diego to interview.

JCloned · 11-17-2006, 01:46 PM

More often than not these days interviews are in third party cities. I doubt location is any clue.

mt85 · 11-17-2006, 01:49 PM

I'm not sure how you conclude Kragthorpe would be medium reward. He took over an awful Tulsa team that was 1-10 in 2001 and 1-10 in 2002. In his first year he went 8-5 and lost in the Humanitarian Bowl. In his second season they went 4-8. His third season they went 9-4 and won the Liberty Bowl. This year he is 7-3. Based on what he took over I would say he has done a phenomenal job. I would suggest that he's just getting the ball rolling.

zdorr40 · 11-17-2006, 02:03 PM

Originally Posted by mt85

I'm not sure how you conclude Kragthorpe would be medium reward. He took over an awful Tulsa team that was 1-10 in 2001 and 1-10 in 2002. In his first year he went 8-5 and lost in the Humanitarian Bowl. In his second season they went 4-8. His third season they went 9-4 and won the Liberty Bowl. This year he is 7-3. Based on what he took over I would say he has done a phenomenal job. I would suggest that he's just getting the ball rolling.

The year they won the Liberty Bowl, they also won Conference USA. I would also suggest they he's just getting the ball rolling.

JCloned · 11-17-2006, 02:15 PM

Originally Posted by mt85

I'm not sure how you conclude Kragthorpe would be medium reward. He took over an awful Tulsa team that was 1-10 in 2001 and 1-10 in 2002. In his first year he went 8-5 and lost in the Humanitarian Bowl. In his second season they went 4-8. His third season they went 9-4 and won the Liberty Bowl. This year he is 7-3. Based on what he took over I would say he has done a phenomenal job. I would suggest that he's just getting the ball rolling.

Let me choose my words carefully here as I don't want you to think that I don't like Kragthorpe. I am not opposed to him. He executed a fast and strong turnaround. Just seems to have plateaued. I would be more excited if he was beating teams in his league this year like Rice who was 4-5 before they beat Tulsa last week. I would be happier if he had a 9-2 or 10-1 season given the level of teams they are playing.

I am not going to be on here complaining if JP hires him. I admit that there is a lot I don't know about him and am open to being persuaded. With Brewster, I would really struggle to get excited, with Kragthorpe I could get excited, with Harbaugh I am excited.

So...reason I put him as medium reward is that at his current level he hasn't delivered the 9-2 or 10-1 season. I would have more confidence in his ability to do 8-4 or 9-3 at ISU if he had done 9-2 or 10-1 at a smaller school first.

Part of it may also be I didn't know much about him other than media hype and given his annointing as best young coach I was disappointed when I looked into his record. Even this yearthey have beaten two teams with winning records and those teams are a combined 13-7 while they have been beaten by teams who are only a combined 18-12...just didn't match my expectations from the hype.

mt85 · 11-17-2006, 02:24 PM

JCloned-fair enough. Considering the lack of success before he arrived. It takes quite a few years for a new coach to bring in players that fit his system.

With the limit of 25 scholarships per season plus redshirt years. It takes quite a few years for a coach to raise the talent level and recruit a full roster of players that fit his system. His instant success is actually remarkable considering the win lose record before he arrived. Now that he has been sustaining some success, he is probably getting better and better recruits all the time. Give those new players a few years in the system, and I speculate that if he stays, you would witness the kind of success you're referring to.