Iowa vs Iowa State

Jeremy · 06-19-2006, 05:47 PM

Iowa vs Iowa State - Iowa trounces ISU in ticket sales
Jeremy
CycloneFanatic.com

One thing I wanted to touch base on real quick was something that I think should bother all of us as Iowa State fans, of any sport. The University of Iowa today announced it was suspending Football season ticket sales due to the overwhelming number of orders, around 45,000 as of right now.

While that is great for the University of Iowa to have so many faithful fans, what does it say about us when Iowa State isn't even up to the goal of 30,000? I know the "average" fan of Iowa is better off financially but that is a pretty darn big spread considering the fanbase is generally similar in most ways.

Iowa has the advantage of having more doctors and lawyers behind the University to give donations but we're not talking major donations, just season ticket purchases. Iowa State has the benefit of being close to Des Moines and it's huge population, not to mention it's more central location and the fact that it's closer to both major Interstates instead of just one. When you calculate out the differences in population, location, etc, there isn't any excuse why the spread should be that big.

Both Iowa and Iowa State play in major conferences with major opponents visiting each year. Both schools are doing above average and consistently performing above the traditional wins/losses in school history while also going to bowl games every year. Why then are there 15,000 more fans willing to buy season ticket packages at Iowa than there are at Iowa State? We're not talking a minor difference here, 15,000 people is a bigger population than almost every town in the State of Iowa.

Just a few thoughts on the incredible difference in the number of season tickets sold at two incredibly similar schools.

Cydkar · 06-19-2006, 05:51 PM

Iowa fans haven't been repeatedly kicked in the nuts either. It's not just money.

chuckd4735 · 06-19-2006, 05:59 PM

I would disagree with you saying that the fanbases are similar. You get outside the Ames and Des moines area, and you will find nothing but Iowa fans, being from easter iowa, I would be willing to say that eastern Iowa is almost 20 to 1 Iowa fans. Me and some of my friends from Ames went to a Cubs game about a month ago on a cold night, and my one friend had a Cyclones sweatshirt on, and I kid you not, when the Mens bathroom saw the sweatshirt, they broke out with the Iowa fight song. Yes, the bathroom in the bleachers of Wrigley Field was singing the Iowa fight song.

I would say this has alot to do with Iowa State being a very very horrible team 10-15 years ago, while Iowa had alot of success. The ones who are able to purchase season tickets grew up watching Iowa dominate the Cylones year after year, and watched the Hawks have success, while the Clones did not succeed.

I think us selling more season tickets is going to be a long term thing, but I think Pollard is heading us in the right direction!

URBCLONE · 06-19-2006, 06:01 PM

Here's a great explanation from Paul Clark's brown bag blog that I happen to agree with:

Wednesday, June 7, 2006

Which came first, the chicken or the sellouts? The Iowa Cubs will demonstrate on Thursday that they can actually come at the same time as central Iowans go into a frenzy and flock (get it, flock?) downtown to see a grown man from San Diego run around in a chicken suit. I saw the half-dressed chicken woofing down post-game pizza in the bowels of old Sec Taylor Stadium back in the mid 80s and, frankly, the allure has been gone ever since.

But usually, the chicken – which from now on refers to college football success – comes before the sellouts. And while Iowa State has had moderate football success by overall standards and great football success by ISU standards in recent years, it has still never had the breakthrough season that truly whipped Cyclone Country into a chicken-induced frenzy. What do we mean by a breakthrough season? 10+ wins, a BCS or Cotton Bowl game, a Big 12 championship, a final Top 10 ranking, etc. Take your pick, any one of them would have gotten the job done.

The difficult thing at Iowa State is there has never been that kind of great success. So instead of just flicking a switch to get the fan base turned on, Dan McCarney has had to re-wire the whole damn house just to get to the point of flicking a switch. That's what is different about ISU as compared to a Wisconsin, which is obviously looked at as the model for Jamie Pollard's philosophies for similar accomplishments at Iowa State. While the Wisky football success story is a compelling one, the differences bear looking at.

What was amazing about Barry Alvarez's reclamation project at Wisconsin was that once Badger fans bought into him, they did it in a big way and they did it instantly. Keep in mind that for the first three years of the Alvarez era in Madison, crowds at cavernous Camp Randall Stadium continued to languish in the 40 to 50 thousand range for most games. When Michigan or Ohio State or Illinois came to town, fans from the other team boosted attendance, but Badger faithful were still not on board as Wisconsin went 1-10, 5-6 and 5-6 in Barry's first three seasons.

The amazing part came in Alvarez's fourth season, which turned out to be the breakthrough, 10-1 Rose Bowl season of 1993. Obviously Wisconsin fans saw that the team would be special even before the year started as 66,000+ came out for the season opener against Nevada, compared to 48,000+ for the home finale of 1992 against Big 10 rival Minnesota. That's an increase of 18,000 fans based on nothing but the excitement of a new season and the realization that the cork was about to pop.

And wouldn't you know it, the real magic began with Wisky's second home game of '93 – against IOWA STATE – when the Badgers played at home as a nationally-ranked team for the first time since 1981. Camp Randall sold out to the tune of 75,000+ strong, Wisconsin whipped the Cyclones by a 28-7 count, and it's never been far from being sold out since. The switch was flicked.

But keep in mind that even though Wisconsin football had been moribund for much of the 70s and 80s, we're still talking about a school with three Rose Bowl appearances to its credit in the late 50s and early 60s. Wisconsin was selling out Camp Randall Stadium decades before Barry met Bucky. So there was already some real voltage coursing through Badger Country. Once a program has achieved a level of national prominence and success, it almost always retains the capability to zoom back to such lofty heights which just the flick of a switch. If it's never been, there's still a lot of hard wiring to do in preparation for really getting turned on for the very first time.

Average attendance has grown 32 percent during McCarney's tenure at Iowa State, from 35,460 in Jim Walden's last season to 46,705 in 2005. Does that increase reflect the level of success ISU has had on the field these past 11 seasons? I think it does. There have certainly been disappointing days at Jack Trice Stadium when it comes to attendance. But when the big picture is looked at over the course of the last decade plus, the increase in average attendance is pretty reflective of the increase in success of the field. You can't accurately evaluate where you are without establishing where you were. What Barry Alvarez took over at Wisconsin was Valhalla compared to what McCarney took over at ISU.

So while Wisconsin stands as a very inspiring success story in moving from Big 10 have-not to being a football and overall athletic program on the next rung down from Michigan and Ohio State, it's an oversimplification to think that Iowa State is the same situation. It's not and getting fans to believe in the possibility of 10-win seasons and major bowl games and top 10 rankings is nearly impossible when they've never witnessed them before. The wiring job isn't even done yet and won't be until that first period of real high level success happens.

By default, when a program breaks through it does it without precedent. So there's always a first time for everybody. Iowa State's will happen, one day. But until then, it's only fair to the fan base to distinguish and point out the very big difference between those schools that have done it those that have not. It's a wide and thick line and you're clearly on one side or the other as a college football program. Unfortunately, there are just a handful of schools on ISU's side. They are the programs that – even though there's been some moderate success - have never experienced the highest of highs when it comes to achievement on the football field.

There are two different kinds of faith – one is based on something you've witnessed and the other is simply what we call blind; it's based on nothing. ISU will sell 30,000 season tickets or more this year almost exclusively on blind faith, just like every season ticket purchased in every year of Iowa State football before this one. Because that's all Cyclone fans have got, and they really should be commended for having it at the level they do. Once there's even a switch to flick, Iowa State will be on the other side of the line.

nbleich · 06-19-2006, 06:06 PM

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(Cydkar @ Jun 19 2006, 04:51 PM) Quoted post</div><div class='quotemain'> Iowa fans haven't been repeatedly kicked in the nuts either. It's not just money.

[/b][/quote]

I agree. Iowa State has had a tendency to bring the knee up right between the legs on more than one occasion. I love the Cyclones as much as anyone, but that effect can scare off the most casual of fans. They are very hard to earn back and when we keep having games like we do against Kansas and Missouri, it will continue to be like this. Iowa may have had their disappointments in the past, but we seem to be getting it down to a science. I hope I am wrong, but having the schedule we do isn't going to make it any easier. We need a year when we beat a couple of teams that we aren't supposed to and not have disappointing losses to teams we can beat.

Cydkar · 06-19-2006, 06:15 PM

Sounds like your friend walked into a circle-jerk. The odds that it was comprised of Hawk fans were pretty good.

JCloned · 06-19-2006, 06:27 PM

Yeah the jewels hurt, but we can't take our ball and go home (and I know you didn't say that). If we want it to change we need to become more committed to game days not less, more committed in our giving not less. If the season goes south we need to be there not for Dan, not for JP, but because we are fans. Fans of Iowa State University. Fans who while demanding excellence follow their teams through ups and downs. Fans. Fans that will fill up stadium on a cold snowy day against an also ran B12 team. Not because we think it will be a great game, but because OUR team is playing - THE Iowa State Cyclones.

Yeah it bothers me that Hawks can say scoreboard on season ticket sales. It bothers me because I am a Cyclone. I don't care about the past, I don't care about population centers. or incomes or professions. I am a fan. I want our fan base to be number one.

There is no reason Green Bay of all places can sell out a stadium and have season tickets the most prized possession in a Will. Population doesn't support it. Income brackets don't support it. Weather sure as hell doesnt' support it. But they come. They all come. So many come you can go bowing on main street. They are fans. (This pains me b/c I hate the packers)

We have a choice. We can fill the stadium, sell out season tickets or we can point to all the reasons we can't be as good as the next guy. Were not Doctors, we don't have the history, we don't have as big a stadium - or we can show up. We demand our sports teams show up and it is time for everyone who calls themselves a fan of Iowa State University Cyclones to show up. I am tired of losing. I am tired of the smack from EIU and NU. We don't control if the team shows up, but we control if we show up.

We are fans of one of the greatest treasures in University Athletics. We are fans of Iowa State.

Pack the Jack

CyinCo · 06-19-2006, 06:57 PM

Not trying to justify anything here since that difference is embarassing but the UofI does have 40,000+ students where ISU has 26,000+ (i'm only guessing on those numbers but they are close). Add that to the fact that the average Iowan with no alliances will 9 out of 10 times side with Iowa. I believe the reason for this is that the Jersey says "Iowa". People with no associations to either university will choose to root for their "state" school. They do this due to the border battles (Illinios, Wisconsin, Minnesota). They want to support their state versus other states. I grew up in Eastern iowa. There is a lot of smack talk across the border between people who live in WI, IL, and IA. What better way to settle which state is better than when you see both states represented in a game. One Jersey says "Iowa" and one says "Wisconsin". So they become "Iowa" fans to support their state. As dumb as this seems, that is the way it is. With no professional sports, "Iowa" is the state team.

frontrangeclone · 06-19-2006, 07:11 PM

Fellow Clonies- I've brought this up in the past, but I compare Iowa fans to Nebraska fans. We just happen to have a larger enough population to support 2 universities in Iowa, but all in all, Iowa and Nebraska are seemingly the biggest shows in each state. Now why does Iowa have this larger following? Look what they did in the 80s and compare that to ISU. I don't mean head2head competition, just overall success. My god don't you all remember what a fervor Fry got the state into when they went to the first rose bowl? Cripes there was even a soda on the shelves call hawkeye gold or something like that. Iowa put the "America Needs Farmers" stickers on their helmets. Thats one way to win over the support of Iowa's rural population, and UI isn't even the land-grant farming institution.

However, I do feel that ISU has and will continue to develop a deeper following amongst the non-affiliated fan in Iowa playing in the big 12 and playing the big names of the college football world. The exposure on ABC helps a lot. If you look at other states w/ two major uni's, there are places where the land-grant school has stepped up and gone toe to toe with the bigger "univ. of", for example the jayhawks and wildcats, ducks and beavers, rams and buffaloes, and cougars/huskies in KS, OR, CO, and WA.

Someone on a post recently stated that the ISU alumni base is a sleeping giant, and I agree 100%. There are a lot of wealthy alumni in Texas thanks to the oil industry. We may not have a Boone Pickens, but 10-20 very wealthy and generous alums could make up for not having the one huge donor. I really feel that Jamie Pollard is the man to waken this giant. I know he's got me listening.

mjones34 · 06-19-2006, 07:19 PM

I think since Iowa has been better in the past, that tradition has carried more loyal fans than us. Also, I hate to admit it, but I know many fair weather ISU fans that gobble up the tix when we're hot and bash us like none other when we're down. Maybe after another year or two, the numbers will be similiar.

Does anyone know if it could be because of the fact that after about 25-30,000 tickets, they are bad seats?

heshwar · 06-19-2006, 07:20 PM

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(CyinCo @ Jun 19 2006, 05:57 PM) Quoted post</div><div class='quotemain'> Not trying to justify anything here since that difference is embarassing but the UofI does have 40,000+ students where ISU has 26,000+ (i'm only guessing on those numbers but they are close). Add that to the fact that the average Iowan with no alliances will 9 out of 10 times side with Iowa. I believe the reason for this is that the Jersey says "Iowa". People with no associations to either university will choose to root for their "state" school. They do this due to the border battles (Illinios, Wisconsin, Minnesota). They want to support their state versus other states. I grew up in Eastern iowa. There is a lot of smack talk across the border between people who live in WI, IL, and IA. What better way to settle which state is better than when you see both states represented in a game. One Jersey says "Iowa" and one says "Wisconsin". So they become "Iowa" fans to support their state. As dumb as this seems, that is the way it is. With no professional sports, "Iowa" is the state team.

[/b][/quote]
"Even with a larger new undergraduate class, overall undergraduate enrollment is 20,732, down 622 from Fall 2004." - http://www.iastate.edu/~accreditation/3-future/233.htm

total enrollment

ISU - 25,741
Iowa - 29642
UNI - 12,513
DMacc - 16,046
Kirkwood - 15,109

http://www2.state.ia.us/regents/ICCPHSE/En...tReport2005.pdf

mjones34 · 06-19-2006, 07:24 PM

The more I think about it, I don't care about numbers as long as our score is more than theirs in sept!!!

REDCYBIRD · 06-19-2006, 07:24 PM

To Quote from the Field of Dreams. "If you build it they will come". All we need are two or three successful seasons.

gabeburkhart · 06-19-2006, 07:27 PM

I have a feeling that IF we continue to have winning seasons and beat Iowa more than we lose to them that there will be more and more ISU fans. When I was younger it was not real easy to be a cyclone and thus there were not many of us and that was in central, IA. Now that we are going to bowl games younger fans are starting to be clones which will mean more ticket holders in the future I hope!!

heshwar · 06-19-2006, 07:32 PM

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(rumncoke @ Jun 19 2006, 06:27 PM) Quoted post</div><div class='quotemain'> I have a feeling that IF we continue to have winning seasons and beat Iowa more than we lose to them that there will be more and more ISU fans. When I was younger it was not real easy to be a cyclone and thus there were not many of us and that was in central, IA. Now that we are going to bowl games younger fans are starting to be clones which will mean more ticket holders in the future I hope!! [/b][/quote]

I agree.

If ten years from now we have maintained a competitive football program the kids that are 8 now will be going to ISU. Just like Iowa is reaping the benefits of Hayden Fry from the 80's.