Basketball: Big Ten vs. Big 12

**SplitIdentity** · 02-28-2009, 08:07 PM

Originally Posted by cyismydog

I agree...the RPI is crap. Don't use it, JMO, it's just as flawed as the BCS.

Agreed. So let's just go back to using head-to-head

**kucyclone** · 02-28-2009, 08:09 PM

Everyone knows the RPI is outdated.

Duke is ahead of UNC, if that tells you anything.
Utah is 9th. That should probably also tell you something.

Seriously, kenpom is the best rankings indicator out there. Read up on it if you want, but his per possession analysis is the best way of evaluating teams I have seen.

**JHudd** · 03-01-2009, 02:02 PM

Expert: Offense-shy Big Ten doesn't deserve the hype - College basketball- nbcsports.msnbc.com

Some good love for the Big 10 here, well maybe not....

**cloneaholic** · 03-01-2009, 02:18 PM

Originally Posted by SouthernHawk

Agreed. So let's just go back to using head-to-head

I agree that head-to-head is always the best measure of which team or conference is better. I just find it amusing that this arguement is coming from a hawk fan. When we beat Iowa in football several years in row the hawk fans claimed that it didn't mean we had the better team - it just meant we played better on that given day. You can't use the scoreboard argument only when it's convenient to do so.

**SplitIdentity** · 03-01-2009, 05:19 PM

Originally Posted by cloneaholic

I agree that head-to-head is always the best measure of which team or conference is better. I just find it amusing that this arguement is coming from a hawk fan. When we beat Iowa in football several years in row the hawk fans claimed that it didn't mean we had the better team - it just meant we played better on that given day. You can't use the scoreboard argument only when it's convenient to do so.

I think only the 2002 ISU win over Iowa can logically be argued as an upset. There are upsets in sports, which is half the fun of debating. If the Big Ten had a 5-3 record against the Big 12 with 2 of those being 1 point wins by Iowa and Indiana over Oklahoma and Kansas, then those would be considered upsets and shouldn't be used to prove that the Big Ten is better.

But again, the fact is, The Big Ten is 6-2 vs. the Big 12 this year, with wins over Kansas, Texas, Oklahoma State, Kansas State, Oklahoma State, and Missouri. It's not like the top BT teams were beating up on the bottom Big 12 teams.

**ajk4st8** · 03-01-2009, 05:38 PM

Originally Posted by SouthernHawk

I think only the 2002 ISU win over Iowa can logically be argued as an upset. There are upsets in sports, which is half the fun of debating. If the Big Ten had a 5-3 record against the Big 12 with 2 of those being 1 point wins by Iowa and Indiana over Oklahoma and Kansas, then those would be considered upsets and shouldn't be used to prove that the Big Ten is better.

But again, the fact is, The Big Ten is 6-2 vs. the Big 12 this year, with wins over Kansas, Texas, Oklahoma State, Kansas State, Oklahoma State, and Missouri. It's not like the top BT teams were beating up on the bottom Big 12 teams.

Agreed. Upsets happen in basketball. But in basketball you tend to see more youth come together and play a lot better by the end of the year. Just seems more common to me.

**jdoggivjc** · 03-02-2009, 09:45 AM

Originally Posted by SouthernHawk

Big Ten is better than the Big 12, and it's not even really close this year.

Last year, the Big 12 was better.

Let's line the teams up:

MSU beats KU (proven on the court)
Illinois vs. Oklahoma(if Griffin is healthy)
Purdue vs. Missouri
Ohio Statevs. Texas
Penn State vs. Kansas State (remember, Iowa beat them)
Wisconsin vs. Okie state - push
Minnesota vs. Texas AM
Michigan vs. Nebraska
Northwestern vs. Baylor - push
Iowa vs. ISU (proven on the court)
Indiana vs. Texas Tech

That's 6-3-2 in favor of the Big Ten, and I could even see Wisconsin beating OSU and Ohio State beating Texas.

If you honestly think that the Big 12 is better than the Big Ten, then you either haven't been watching basketball, or you are a homer.

I think I'd put the ones highlighted in red in the push category (I don't think Penn St has done anything to prove that they'd be a definite win over Kansas St, and vice versa, plus using the argument "well, Iowa beat K-State, so obviously Penn St would as well" is weak at best. As far as Iowa-Iowa St, I think it depends where that game is played as to who has the advantage in that game - Iowa City/Big 10 territory, advantage Iowa, Ames/Big XII territory, advantage ISU), and I think I'd put the Northwestern-Baylor game highlighted in green strongly in favor of the Big 10 - yes, Northwestern is traditionally weak, but Baylor has been an absolute failure this year, especially down the stretch. This is one I think the Big 10 wins easily.

Adjusted record - 5-3-3 in favor of the Big 10. Otherwise I agree with you - the Big 10 is just a better conference than the Big XII top to bottom this year.

**SplitIdentity** · 03-02-2009, 11:04 PM

Iowa-ISU I'll give you that based on home court it would make a difference.

However, PSU has won at Illinois and MSU, so I would venture to say that'd give them the advantage over KSU.

On a neutral court, just based on the fact it was such a blow-out in Iowa's favor, I'd say Hawks win. I doubt they'd win in Hilton though, unless they played with the intensity they did at MSU.