More adventures in Duke traveling...

**TarHeelHawk** · 02-28-2009, 09:16 PM

The audio isn't that great, but it sounds like even Dickie V thinks Scheyer might have taken a step or 8.

[ame=http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=R3vtLevo44o]YouTube - Jon Scheyer Moon Walks Across the floor: Traveling NOT Called (HD)[/ame]

**LindenCy** · 02-28-2009, 09:17 PM

I'm pretty sure that once Mike K. is retired Duke bball will fade into mediocrity. See the year in the '90s starring Cherokee Parks when he wasn't coaching.

**CyCrazy** · 02-28-2009, 09:23 PM

i wish dickie v, duke , and all those idiots would just go away

**TarHeelHawk** · 02-28-2009, 09:26 PM

Originally Posted by LindenCy

I'm pretty sure that once Mike K. is retired Duke bball will fade into mediocrity. See the year in the '90s starring Cherokee Parks when he wasn't coaching.

I don't know about that; he's been there long enough, and Duke is such a household name nationally that should always be able to draw some good talent. They might not be what they are now, but I can't see them going away, either.

**LindenCy** · 02-28-2009, 09:27 PM

Originally Posted by TarHeelHawk

I don't know about that; he's been there long enough, and Duke is such a household name nationally that should always be able to draw some good talent. They might not be what they are now, but I can't see them going away, either.

That may be true, but I was shocked how quick they faded that year when he wasn't coaching. I really think he is a great coach and it will be tough to duplicate.

**TarHeelHawk** · 02-28-2009, 09:32 PM

Originally Posted by LindenCy

That may be true, but I was shocked how quick they faded that year when he wasn't coaching. I really think he is a great coach and it will be tough to duplicate.

Little known fact : Coack K was this close taking the Iowa State job, and was in fact on his way back to Ames to accept it when a Duke administrator stopped him at the airport in Raleigh. In fact, Bobby Knight recommended that he take the Iowa State job over Duke.

**jdoggivjc** · 03-02-2009, 09:35 AM

I think when it comes to whether a program fades into mediocrity or not depends on the type of coach that is hired to replace the departing legendary coach. Case in point, both Kentucky and Indiana basketball. Kentucky's fade to irrelevancy began when Rick Pitino decided to take the Boston Celtic's job (even though Tubby Smith did win a championship a year later, with mostly Rick Pitino players), and definitely became irrelevant upon the firing of Smith - Gillespie has done nothing of note there yet. As far as Indiana, they for the most part have been irrelevant since Bobby Knight was fired.

To counter the argument, take North Carolina and Kansas, another two legendary programs. North Carolina hires Williams away from Kansas and goes on to win a championship the very next year and has been a top-10 team ever since. No fading into obscurity there. Kansas replaces Williams with Self, and while there's an initial struggle of trying to get out of the first round of the NCAA Tournament, Self brings the first championship to KU in 20+ years. That and he's taken a team that everyone assumed was "middle-of-the-pack" in a weak Big XII conference and has them in first place.

If Duke takes the route of North Carolina and does their homework and hires a proven, established, successful head coach to replace Coach K when he decides to leave, Duke basketball will be just fine in the future. If it decides to do either what Kentucky or Indiana did, there could be problems for them in the future.

**keepngoal** · 03-02-2009, 09:43 AM

Traveling in Basketball (might as well throw in carrying the ball) is just like holding in Football.... you could call them all night long.

-keep

**TarHeelHawk** · 03-02-2009, 09:47 AM

Originally Posted by jdoggivjc

I think when it comes to whether a program fades into mediocrity or not depends on the type of coach that is hired to replace the departing legendary coach. Case in point, both Kentucky and Indiana basketball. Kentucky's fade to irrelevancy began when Rick Pitino decided to take the Boston Celtic's job (even though Tubby Smith did win a championship a year later, with mostly Rick Pitino players), and definitely became irrelevant upon the firing of Smith - Gillespie has done nothing of note there yet. As far as Indiana, they for the most part have been irrelevant since Bobby Knight was fired.

To counter the argument, take North Carolina and Kansas, another two legendary programs. North Carolina hires Williams away from Kansas and goes on to win a championship the very next year and has been a top-10 team ever since. No fading into obscurity there. Kansas replaces Williams with Self, and while there's an initial struggle of trying to get out of the first round of the NCAA Tournament, Self brings the first championship to KU in 20+ years. That and he's taken a team that everyone assumed was "middle-of-the-pack" in a weak Big XII conference and has them in first place.

If Duke takes the route of North Carolina and does their homework and hires a proven, established, successful head coach to replace Coach K when he decides to leave, Duke basketball will be just fine in the future. If it decides to do either what Kentucky or Indiana did, there could be problems for them in the future.

Crean will get Indiana turned around. He is basically walking into the same situation that Lickliter walked into at Iowa, with not much talent to put on the floor. Like Todd's first year, Crean has spent his first year teaching his team how to play the game his way, and they are a very young team (one senior) just like Lick's first team was. I would be willing to bet that either next year or the year after that Indiana is leaps and bounds ahead of where they are now, Crean is too good of a coach and recruiter for that not to happen. Hell, he got Dwyane Wade to come to Milwaukee!

It wasn't all good at Carolina after Dean Smith retired. Bill Guthridge came in and took the team to 2 Final 4's, but then he retired, and they brought in Matt Doherty, who went 26-7 in his first year, but followed it up with 8-20 and 17-15 campaigns before Carolina axed him.

**Knownothing** · 03-02-2009, 09:47 AM

If Duke takes the route of North Carolina and does their homework and hires a proven, established, successful head coach to replace Coach K when he decides to leave, Duke basketball will be just fine in the future. If it decides to do either what Kentucky or Indiana did, there could be problems for them in the future.

Few at Gonzaga would be a good fit when K leaves.

**mj4cy** · 03-02-2009, 09:50 AM

Blake Griffin traveled about 10 times up in Ames this year and one was called.

**jdoggivjc** · 03-02-2009, 09:54 AM

Originally Posted by TarHeelHawk

Crean will get Indiana turned around. He is basically walking into the same situation that Lickliter walked into at Iowa, with not much talent to put on the floor. Like Todd's first year, Crean has spent his first year teaching his team how to play the game his way, and they are a very young team (one senior) just like Lick's first team was. I would be willing to bet that either next year or the year after that Indiana is leaps and bounds ahead of where they are now, Crean is too good of a coach and recruiter for that not to happen. Hell, he got Dwyane Wade to come to Milwaukee!

It wasn't all good at Carolina after Dean Smith retired. Bill Guthridge came in and took the team to 2 Final 4's, but then he retired, and they brought in Matt Doherty, who went 26-7 in his first year, but followed it up with 8-20 and 17-15 campaigns before Carolina axed him.

I agree that Indiana's going to get it turned around - they finally hired a legitimate coach in Crean. Mike Davis was a coach for the most part with "meh" results (at least by IU standards), and everyone KNEW that hiring Kelvin Sampson was a "joke" of a hire. But for the better part of a decade, with the exception of 2001-02, when they went to the Final Four as a 5 seed, they've been extremely mediocre. And you're right about UNC - they hired mediocre and got disaster in return. They hit a grand slam in the hiring of Roy Williams and they scored big time.

Point remans - whether Duke heads toward mediocrity or they don't miss too much of a step largely depends on who they get to replace Coach K when he decides it's time to leave.

**Stewo** · 03-02-2009, 09:54 AM

Originally Posted by TarHeelHawk

Little known fact : Coack K was this close taking the Iowa State job, and was in fact on his way back to Ames to accept it when a Duke administrator stopped him at the airport in Raleigh. In fact, Bobby Knight recommended that he take the Iowa State job over Duke.

Only if. I can't even fanthom the idea of what our program would look like today.

**cyfan964** · 03-02-2009, 09:56 AM

[ame=http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fYOgC2Qbqh4]YouTube - "This is Why Duke Sucks" by Peter "PMD" Rosenberg[/ame]

Best line: Why are you complaining?... You get all the calls.

**trajanJ** · 03-02-2009, 09:57 AM

Carolina's problem was being loyal to Guthridge. He went to 2 Final Fours with Smith's players. He couldn't recruit anybody and he left Doherty with nothing. Why do you think Williams didn't take the job in the first place. He looked at that lack of talent and then looked at his own team with 3 future first round picks and said, "I think I'll stay." Doherty brought in some great players but lacked the discipline and Williams came in and took those players to the Championship.