The mother of all NFL “talent” reports per conference…

[jtd9046]

You still don't get it..........................I'm not trying to say the Big 10 is better or even as good as.

Chad

Yes you are. If you aren't than what is the point of this thread? Why are you pulling out all these 'talent' stats and what not?

You're trying to prove to yourself and to the board that the Big 10 is as good as or better than other conferences. Plain and simple. Anytime anyone refutes your point... "we don't get it" and "you're cherry picking". We do get it. You love the Big 10 and it's just 11 NFL QB's away from being undefeated for the next 4 years.

[agcy68]

The last 2 they have most assuredly sucked. That has NOT been your premise however. Honestly I find it odd that the reasonable posters and I get a long swimmingly. Yet the same ones I saw laughing you off in the Barnes thread are the same that I can come to terms with.

Go figure…………………they are rational critical thinkers and you aren’t

Chad

Are you really this much of a jerk in real life? You come here antonizing the site, then claim to be just spouting facts, but do it in a manner that is rude and insulting.

[cmhawks99]

Yes you are. If you aren't than what is the point of this thread? Why are you pulling out all these 'talent' stats and what not?

You're trying to prove to yourself and to the board that the Big 10 is as good as or better than other conferences. Plain and simple. Anytime anyone refutes your point... "we don't get it" and "you're cherry picking". We do get it. You love the Big 10 and it's just 11 NFL QB's away from being undefeated for the next 4 years.

I'll wager you I know more about the Big 10, Big 12, and SEC combined than you do about ISU. I have said countless times on here that the Big 10 was poor last year. I have said it in this very thread. But you guys need more than that. You run about spouting that THE Big 10 is slow, that they don’t have any talent. I proved that wrong. I have said it in 100 other threads. The record on the field most assuredly "shows" who was best. But that isn’t what you guys want. It is you who obviously doesn't get it...............

You and several folks like you have postulated every day in the countless Hawkeye related threads on here, that the Big 10 is slow and talent poor. That is my one and ONLY hot button. The above shows that to be inaccurate.

I love ISU fans they are the best at seeing one thing and then making grandiose projections about many others. The next time you find anywhere were I said the Big 10 was as good as the Big 12 last year or the prior will be the 1st,

Good enuff for you.......................I'm sorry that the numbers do not bear out that Big 10 is void of talent and heading down the slippery slope but your reactions have been enuff of me.

The Big 12 was without a doubt a waaayyyy better conference last year and will be again this year if QB play doesn't improve dramatically in the Big 10.

Chad

PS……………………….I am also on record that talent or not if Iowa doesn’t come in to the season with their lunch pail and their head screwed on right they will struggle early and are more than capable of being beat in Ames. Now be careful when you put words in my mouth friend. I am very fair and reasonable.

[MontyBurns]

You look at the NFL numbers and you show me where the Big 10 is lagging.

We don't need to look at the NFL numbers to see the Big 10 is lagging. The Big 10's 4-13 record against the Big 12 the last four years tells us all we need to know.

[cmhawks99]

Are you really this much of a jerk in real life? You come here antonizing the site, then claim to be just spouting facts, but do it in a manner that is rude and insulting.

Actually I'm pretty well liked, but yes I do frustrate people when I say things they can't refute for sure. I stay the course and continue painting them into a corner.

You find me rude but I was looking for discussions. I never yelled, I never lost my composure; I didn’t make fun or call names. I am always respectful and quick to apologize when I am over the top. I haven’t been rude in this thread and there are ISU people on here that will verify I try hard to be respectful always.

Here is the thing; ISU fans are odd to me. It isn’t enuff Iowa fans give them credit for regularly beating us. It isn’t enuff that we admit to being nervous about the game up there this year. They have to continually, and loudly lament the Big 10. I ask why……….jealousy?!? Insecurity?!?!

I know you have seen the countless “talent and speed” threads. I also know you have seen others get snippy with me while I stayed pleasant. If you think I have been rude it says a great deal more about your inability to be fair and impartial with your evaluations that it does me.

My goal was to show everyone where the NFL talent has come from and that “slow” conferences don’t do well in the NFL. I have succeeded at that based on the displeasure I have appeared to cause.

Yes the Big 12 has been better of late………..it wont be that way forever.

I love the Big 12 and always have, contrary to most of you who despise all things Big 10. I try hard to give credit both ways and to all things as they deserve.

The Big 12 may easily be waaaayyy better again this year and I don’t have a problem with it. My identity doesn’t depend on a football game and Iowa’s identity doesn’t depend on proving this conference is good or this one is bad. That is your guys bag. Prove the Big 10 is bad and has no talent and you can somehow excuse a millennium of bad football teams.

As for me, I love watching the Big 10, the Big 12 and the SEC. I have no preconceived notion that Big 10 is anything other than down. But I also know it isn’t because of some mysterious circumstance other than it is all-cyclical.

I even got some people to begrudgingly agree finally. And I am moving on.

Once again for posterity though, the Big 12 was better and may still be. The ISU game will be tough no matter how you slice it.. Any one suggesting I said differently is delusional or…..well……it is what it is.

Chad

[cmhawks99]

We don't need to look at the NFL numbers to see the Big 10 is lagging. The Big 10's 4-13 record against the Big 12 the last four years tells us all we need to know.

Not to quibble but it is actually 7-13 and once again, not the issue. You have seen the countless threads suggesting the Big 12 had waaaayyyy more talent. That and THAT alone is ALL this is about.

I’ve said it 10 times in this very thread, and people keep changing it to the obvious because they don’t want to acknowledge it.

I know the Big 12 is better on the field right now. I also know it wont’ last forever. Honestly the difference between you guys & me is I watch both conferences with impartiality. In fact I love both of them. You guys however hate all things Iowa and the Big 10 and it throws your objectivity into question.

Chad

[cgwarrior33]

The part that I don't get is you don't like the...if ISU played in the Big 10...etc....but you allow yourself to imply the thought of, if you change the QBs in such and such games or the Big 10 QBs is where the talent difference is... That is the double standard I do not like.

I guess I am not understanding the point to this thread. Things are measured in wins and loses..correct? Thats why games aren't played on paper, unless I missed something. Your arguement, seems to me, is that your are trying to use talent, i.e. players in the NFL, as your measuring stick to determine how strong or weak a conference is?

I could be misinterpreting your data or your point, but this is what I have gathered. Correct me if I misunderstood something. Having talent within a conference is great, but playing games is what sports is about. I just find it interesting your point is based upon individuals making it, not what the teams do as a whole. I don't doubt anyone's talent who playes Division I football, but you don't have to even play football to get drafted.

Don't get me wrong, your argument has some substance. I just feel, to base an entire beginning opinion/thought off of this information, is a bit shaky.

[cgwarrior33]

I know the Big 12 is better on the field right now. I also know it wont’ last forever. Honestly the difference between you guys & me is I watch both conferences with impartiality. In fact I love both of them. You guys however hate all things Iowa and the Big 10 and it throws your objectivity into question.

Chad

Generalizations are what cause problems. I do not hate all things Iowa, I have family friends on the Iowa FB team. I have problems with ignorant fans of any team (not saying you are one). I watch Pac 10, Big 10, Big 12, ACC, SEC....the fact is, if there is a good game on, I'm going to watch it.

[MontyBurns]

Not to quibble but it is actually 7-13 and once again, not the issue.

Sorry to burst your bubble, chump, but no matter how many times you count it the Big 10 has won FOUR out of 17 games against the Big 12 the past four years:

2005 (3-0)
ISU beat Iowa
Nebraska beat Michigan
Texas beat Ohio State

2006 (3-2)
Iowa beat ISU
Ohio State beat Texas
Texas beat Iowa
Texas Tech beat Minnesota

2007 (3-1)
ISU beat Iowa
Missouri beat Illinois
Oklahoma State beat Indiana
Penn State beat Texas A&M

2008 (4-1)
Iowa beat ISU
Kansas beat Minnesota
Missouri beat Illinois
Missouri beat Northwestern
Texas beat Ohio State

[cmhawks99]

Sorry to burst your bubble, chump, but no matter how many times you count it the Big 10 has won FOUR out of 17 games against the Big 12 the past four years:

2005 (3-0)
ISU beat Iowa
Nebraska beat Michigan
Texas beat Ohio State

2006 (3-2)
Iowa beat ISU
Ohio State beat Texas
Texas beat Iowa
Texas Tech beat Minnesota

2007 (3-1)
ISU beat Iowa
Missouri beat Illinois
Oklahoma State beat Indiana
Penn State beat Texas A&M

2008 (4-1)
Iowa beat ISU
Kansas beat Minnesota
Missouri beat Illinois
Missouri beat Northwestern
Texas beat Ohio State

Aggregate Conference Record, 2004-2008

Overall Home Away Neutral

BigXII 0.350 20 7 13 0 0.800 5 4 1 0 0.333 3 1 2 0 0.167 12 2 10 0

Here is the link...........................Chump indeed..................


Aggregate Conference Record 2004-2008


Chad

Edit: I see where we are missing I thought we were going to 2004, but I also see that wouldn't have made since because the Big 10 won 4 games then..............I do enjoy I have upset you enuff for you to resort to calling me a chump.

Victory

[MontyBurns]

Aggregate Conference Record, 2004-2008

Overall Home Away Neutral

BigXII 0.350 20 7 13 0 0.800 5 4 1 0 0.333 3 1 2 0 0.167 12 2 10 0

Here is the link...........................Chump indeed..................


Aggregate Conference Record 2004-2008


Chad

The last four years.

1 - 2008
2 - 2007
3 - 2006
4 - 2005
5 - 2004

Learn to count.

[cmhawks99]

The part that I don't get is you don't like the...if ISU played in the Big 10...etc....but you allow yourself to imply the thought of, if you change the QBs in such and such games or the Big 10 QBs is where the talent difference is... That is the double standard I do not like.

I guess I am not understanding the point to this thread. Things are measured in wins and loses..correct? Thats why games aren't played on paper, unless I missed something. Your arguement, seems to me, is that your are trying to use talent, i.e. players in the NFL, as your measuring stick to determine how strong or weak a conference is?

I could be misinterpreting your data or your point, but this is what I have gathered. Correct me if I misunderstood something. Having talent within a conference is great, but playing games is what sports is about. I just find it interesting your point is based upon individuals making it, not what the teams do as a whole. I don't doubt anyone's talent who playes Division I football, but you don't have to even play football to get drafted.

Don't get me wrong, your argument has some substance. I just feel, to base an entire beginning opinion/thought off of this information, is a bit shaky.

To start with, you included yourself in the generalization. I have a terrific relationship with many on here and I have countlessly said this is the best, fairest site on the web. I din't mean you and I know I chose poor rhetoric to save words.I realize I said “ISU” fans but you have to give me a little rope here as I routinely have opposing views to “these” ISU fans. Which is were you are missing me. If you have followed over the past couple months you’d know these usual suspects are the “bureaucracy” of the “WE hate the Big 10” proletariat.

I too love college football, and I’ll watch Troy play ULL. It is as a result of this that I know the Big 10 still has speed and talent, yet they have indeed sucked of late. I watch copious amounts of football and I know as you undoubtedly do that it can all go south in a hurry and there is a lot more to it than coaching, talent and what not. Right now the Big 10 is at best 3rd if not 4th.

Although the aforementioned are trying to pretend otherwise right now their point of contention has been the Big 10 is slow, irrelevant and they are in a free fall that they will never recover from. You undoubtedly know that is likely not true. I have told them continually that yes the Big 10 sucks, but it isn’t because they suddenly have no talent. They may be talent poor in areas but it isn’t like the Steelers vs the Fairfield Trojans all of a sudden.

They have said they aren’t fast enuff to play the spread…………..

I have showed the Big 10 spread teams….........

I have shown the amount of DB’s and Lbers from the Big 10 in the NFL….

Etc, etc, etc………………….honestly this is my hang up I know, but I am very much the person that isn’t ok with agreeing they are “bad”! I think it is necessary they know why and that the facts are known to all.

Chad