The next USC?

[Cyclonestate78]

Why? What would prove that they didn't during Davis tenure? They had scholarship and recruiting restrictions his first three or four years there, when you nearly get the death penalty for a sport the NCAA doesn't just leave you alone the next few years and let you go right back to what you were doing. But yeah keep making ignorant, generalized statements with nothing to back it up.

Yep... Somehow Butch managed to get all of the following players to come to Miami while he was there....

Ray Lewis (LB), Yatil Green (WR), Kenard Lang (DE), Kenny Holmes (DE), Duane Starks (CB), Edgerrin James (RB), Bubba Franks (TE), Dan Morgan (LB), Damion Lewis (DT), Santana Moss (WR), Reggie Wayne (WR), Bryant McKinnie (OT), Jeremy Shockey (TE), Phillip Buchanon (CB), Ed Reed (S), Mike Rumph (CB), Andre Johnson (WR), Jerome McDougle (DE), Willis McGahee (RB), William Joseph (DT), the late Sean Taylor (S), Kellen Winslow II (TE), Jonathan Vilma (LB), D.J. Williams (LB), Vernon Carey (OT), Vince Wilfork (DT), Antrel Rolle (CB), and Kelly Jennings (CB)

[JP4CY]

USC was starting to drop off though and Pete left them. It was the perfect time for the NCAA to finally step in and slap the Trojans. They weren't on a roll winning national titles like Miami was. How many consecutive games did Miami win?

Last year they were 9-4, so it wasn't what people expected so I'll give you that, but they still tied for 3rd in the Pac 10, and won a bowl game. Before that, they went to 7 straight BCS games, having to vacate one now, and losing the other one to Texas by 3 pts in one of the greatest games ever but winning all the other ones. That's pretty impressive.

Yeah and how much press and how many years did it take for them to do anything about it? They were forced to do it by the press coverage.

I never argued that, read above, I just stated USC. Cyclonestate said that when the NCAA has a money maker they tend to look the other way. Well they aren't now and USC is still a huge money maker in a huge market.

[CyJack13]

Yep... Somehow Butch managed to get all of the following players to come to Miami while he was there....

Ray Lewis (LB), Yatil Green (WR), Kenard Lang (DE), Kenny Holmes (DE), Duane Starks (CB), Edgerrin James (RB), Bubba Franks (TE), Dan Morgan (LB), Damion Lewis (DT), Santana Moss (WR), Reggie Wayne (WR), Bryant McKinnie (OT), Jeremy Shockey (TE), Phillip Buchanon (CB), Ed Reed (S), Mike Rumph (CB), Andre Johnson (WR), Jerome McDougle (DE), Willis McGahee (RB), William Joseph (DT), the late Sean Taylor (S), Kellen Winslow II (TE), Jonathan Vilma (LB), D.J. Williams (LB), Vernon Carey (OT), Vince Wilfork (DT), Antrel Rolle (CB), and Kelly Jennings (CB)

Well he didn't get Ray Lewis, Yatil Green or Kenard Lang to come there, they were already on the team, so that's wrong. But whats your point? A lot of those guys weren't big recruits, they developed a lot of talent while he was there.

[Cyclonestate78]

Last year they were 9-4, so it wasn't what people expected so I'll give you that, but they still tied for 3rd in the Pac 10, and won a bowl game. Before that, they went to 7 straight BCS games, having to vacate one now, and losing the other one to Texas by 3 pts in one of the greatest games ever but winning all the other ones. That's pretty impressive.



I never argued that, read above, I just stated USC. Cyclonestate said that when the NCAA has a money maker they tend to look the other way. Well they aren't now and USC is still a huge money maker in a huge market.

The NCAA is about 1 thing.... Money. The NCAA needs to have at least a couple of dominant teams on top of the mountain. They need a program that fans from around the country love and they need at least one team that fans from around the country hate. USC was the team that fans from around the country loved to hate. Pete had built a monster of a program at USC and I found myself watching them whenever they were on tv hoping to see them get beat. The thing about USC was they just kept winning and kept bringing in higher viewer ratings on tv and making a ton of money. Last year they dropped off and people nationally started losing interest in them because it was the beginning of the end for a dynasty that had dominated for the better part of a decade. USC was losing their appeal on the national stage as their dominance was coming to an end. It was the perfect time for the NCAA to hammer them. The NCAA dragged their feet until the time was right financially and the rest is now history.

[Cyclonestate78]

Well he didn't get Ray Lewis, Yatil Green or Kenard Lang to come there, they were already on the team, so that's wrong. But whats your point? A lot of those guys weren't big recruits, they developed a lot of talent while he was there.

My point is this. Miami had just gotten hammered by the NCAA. Their program was looking at almost certain decline due to sanctions yet Butch Davis was able to bring in recruiting class upon recruiting class of guys of which nearly every one of them ended up in the NFL or were high round NFL Draft picks? He did this all running a program that was as clean as a whistle? Yet he goes to UNC and now all of the sudden his staff is allegedly paying players, paying recruits, etc.... all of which are part of the rich tradition of Miami football and you want me to believe that Butch wasn't doing the same thing at Miami? Come on man....

[VeloClone]

I never argued that, read above, I just stated USC. Cyclonestate said that when the NCAA has a money maker they tend to look the other way. Well they aren't now and USC is still a huge money maker in a huge market.

Well, my point was the only reason they didn't look the other way this time was they were forced to act by the media coverage. This is why, in my estimation, your response of USC did not validly refute 78's point. They tend to look the other way, but could not do so in this case due to media/public pressure.

I don't know how I could have been more clear.

[gharris]

My point is this. Miami had just gotten hammered by the NCAA. Their program was looking at almost certain decline due to sanctions yet Butch Davis was able to bring in recruiting class upon recruiting class of guys of which nearly every one of them ended up in the NFL or were high round NFL Draft picks? He did this all running a program that was as clean as a whistle? Yet he goes to UNC and now all of the sudden his staff is allegedly paying players, paying recruits, etc.... all of which are part of the rich tradition of Miami football and you want me to believe that Butch wasn't doing the same thing at Miami? Come on man....

Not taking a side here but South Beach is a pretty nice destination for college, and Florida does have just a little bit of talent in the state.

[CyJack13]

My point is this. Miami had just gotten hammered by the NCAA. Their program was looking at almost certain decline due to sanctions yet Butch Davis was able to bring in recruiting class upon recruiting class of guys of which nearly every one of them ended up in the NFL or were high round NFL Draft picks? He did this all running a program that was as clean as a whistle? Yet he goes to UNC and now all of the sudden his staff is allegedly paying players, paying recruits, etc.... all of which are part of the rich tradition of Miami football and you want me to believe that Butch wasn't doing the same thing at Miami? Come on man....

First of all, did you read the article? His staff isn't accused of paying players, they were investigating agents contacting the players. You also seem to think the NCAA has some giant conspiracy to prop certain programs up and let them get away with anything. Butch Davis is a great recruiter and talent evaluator, he did run a very clean program at Miami. He was also recruiting in probably the best area in the country for high school football talent which obviously made it a little easier. Show me one article or anything that accuses Davis of running a dirty program at Miami? There are hundreds out there talking about him cleaning up the program and increasing Miami's graduation rates. But I know you don't like facts or actual informative statements from people who have first hand knowledge of the program, and would rather just stick with your made up beliefs that you can't prove.

[Cyclonestate78]

Not taking a side here but South Beach is a pretty nice destination for college, and Florida does have just a little bit of talent in the state.

You are absolutely correct. Miami does have a huge recruiting advantage purely based on location. South Beach in the winter sure would beat a lot of other places.

I found it very interesting that stud OL recruit that recently decommitted from USC chose to go to Miami. lol. He ran from one school that cheats to another.

[Cyclonestate78]

First of all, did you read the article? His staff isn't accused of paying players, they were investigating agents contacting the players. You also seem to think the NCAA has some giant conspiracy to prop certain programs up and let them get away with anything. Butch Davis is a great recruiter and talent evaluator, he did run a very clean program at Miami. He was also recruiting in probably the best area in the country for high school football talent which obviously made it a little easier. Show me one article or anything that accuses Davis of running a dirty program at Miami? There are hundreds out there talking about him cleaning up the program and increasing Miami's graduation rates. But I know you don't like facts or actual informative statements from people who have first hand knowledge of the program, and would rather just stick with your made up beliefs that you can't prove.

I just got done reading an article about recruits of UNC making statements that members of Butch's staff offered them payments to sign with UNC as well as setting them up with females on campus. Interesting.....

[VeloClone]

I just got done reading an article about recruits of UNC making statements that members of Butch's staff offered them payments to sign with UNC as well as setting them up with females on campus. Interesting.....

Link?

[JP4CY]

Last year they dropped off and people nationally started losing interest in them because it was the beginning of the end for a dynasty that had dominated for the better part of a decade. USC was losing their appeal on the national stage as their dominance was coming to an end..

USC didn't drop too far, I'll try and find regular schedule but here is the bowl ratings, looks like they did OK to me on their one 'bad" year in the last decade:
ABC
BCS Championship Game (Alabama 37 Texas 21)
17.2/19730
ABC
Rose Bowl (Ohio State 26 Oregon 17)
13.2/15143
FOX
Sugar Bowl (Florida 51 Cincinnati 24)
8.5/9766
FOX
Fiesta Bowl (Boise State 17 TCU 10)
8.2/9455
ABC
Capital One Bowl (Penn State 19 LSU 17)
6.8/7843
FOX
Orange Bowl (Iowa 24 Georgia Tech 14)
6.8/7815
ESPN
Valero Alamo Bowl (Texas Tech 41 Michigan State 31)
4.8/5553
ESPN
Emerald Bowl (USC 24 Boston College 13)
4.6/5289
FOX
AT&T Cotton Bowl (Ole Miss 21 Oklahoma State 7)
4.5/5220
ESPN
Chick-Fil-A Bowl ( Virginia Tech 37 Tennessee 14)
4.2/4852
CBS
Gator Bowl (Florida State 33 West Virginia 21)
3.9/4533
ESPN
Chanps Sports Bowl (Wisconsin 20 Miami (FL) 14)
3.9/4488
ESPN
Meineke Car Care Bowl (Pittsburgh 19 North Carolina 17)
3.9/4521
ESPN
AutoZone Liberty Bowl (Arkansas 20 East Carolina 17)
3.8/4332
ESPN
Pacific Life Holiday Bowl (Nebraska 33 Arizona 0)
3.7/4267
ESPN
Outback Bowl (Auburn 38 Northwestern 35)
3.5/4020
CBS
Sun Bowl (Oklahoma 31 Stanford 27)
3.3/3804

[CyJack13]

I just got done reading an article about recruits of UNC making statements that members of Butch's staff offered them payments to sign with UNC as well as setting them up with females on campus. Interesting.....

Which article says that?

[Cyclonestate78]

Which article says that?

I am looking for it. It was all about "Black Santa" aka John Blake the former coach at Oklahoma who is Butch's associate head coach and recruiting coordinator at UNC. That guy has been in the middle of recruiting scandals since his days at OU.

The Austin kid that is being questioned heavily at UNC for receiving improper benefits from an agent happens to have been dealing with the same agent that "Black Santa" (a nickname given to him by his players) set him up with. It also happens to be the same agent that he set former OU player Brian Bosworth up with. Interesting stuff. Blake seems like one hell of a dirty recruiter.

[CyJack13]

I am looking for it. It was all about "Black Santa" aka John Blake the former coach at Oklahoma who is Butch's associate head coach and recruiting coordinator at UNC. That guy has been in the middle of recruiting scandals since his days at OU.

Was Blake on his Miami staff?