Pre Jamie Pollard versus Now

[Bobber]

I guess its one of two things, maybe an alcoholic was drunk at a bar making a joke in poor taste or maybe we have one of the dirtiest programs in the country and paid Larry Eustachy hundreds of thousands of dollars to cover it up. Its probably impossible to know and something that should be discussed in great detail with everyone saying all the rumors they heard over the years about our athletic department on a message board with zero proof.

Woah my friend....Like I said before, this is on Jamal Tinsley and not LE or the Athletic Department. LE obviously suspected him, but how do you prove it occured? LE and the Athletic department did nothing wrong.

[mwitt]

My husband used to work for a company that would take him to the NCAA tournaments. He happened to be at the tournament in Atlanta in 2002 or 2003 or whenever. He had been at a party and they came back to the hotel, and just so happened to stop at the bar. There was a huge group of people in the corner, being loud and raucous. The one who happened to be the loudest, drunkest, and swearing the most was our very own LE.

While it was very nice of Larry to buy my husband a drink and talk to him, it isn't necessarily the way I feel comfortable with our school being represented. Talking to others about "Tinsley f-ing shaving points" doesn't necessarily give the best image. He was having a good time, which is great, but I think having a coach who is a role model is exceptional. It's the same reason why I liked McCarney, and why I think Chizik seems to be a good fit.

A couple questions. Was this really in 2002 or 2003, or was it in 2001 a day or two after we lost to Hampton and you just couldn't remember the year? I think it could make a difference if this was right after the game and he was saying some irrational things out of frustration or if this is after he had a year or two to think about it.

Also, was your husband drunk at the time? Not accusing you or him of anything, but maybe some context was lost if he was also drunk.

[theshadow]

Exactly. The point shaving is a big rumor that I believe to be true (heard from too many that it is true). Too many events happened in that game that Tinsley normally wouldn't do.

Please name them.

From my point of view...
(1) ISU was a 17.5 point favorite. A 17-point win would have meant $ for those who bet on Hampton.
(2) The O/U was 147. Total score ended up 115.
(3) Tinsley's line: 9 pts, 8 ast, 5 stl, 4 reb, 1 blk, 5 TO
(4) ISU from the FT line: 6-16 (38%) ...in the 2nd half? 0-1.

[jumbopackage]

Wow. I loved (not a "man crush" thank you very much ) LE as much as the next person, but people sometimes say or do things that they would not otherwise, when alcohol is involved. From the previous posts, it sounds like there are first hand accounts of what happened.

Sometimes, I think that we just need to remind ourselves, once in a while, that it's just a "conversation" (not evidence) on a message board.

Part of the problem is that you have a BBall coach even saying those things though in the first place. Who cares if JT was point shaving or not? I care that the bball coach is going around airing dirty laundry in public instead of taking it to the AD and investigating it.

That's the difference pre- and post- Pollard, IMO. We had a dysfunctional athletic department pre- Pollard. Take a look at A&M for another example recently.

[CyCloned]

Okay, I think this is getting way off track. LE screwed up, big time. I loved the winning but LE crossed the line and had to go. BVD did not handle it well, that was obvious. I don't understand the original posters point in pulling out a couple of years and pointing out that things were great. If you have been an ISU fan for 30 years, you know that there have been a lot more bad years than good.

I really liked Danny Mac. I hated to see him go, but man the FB program was going nowhere with him at the helm. When he was let go in late November he had 5 verbal commits.

JP did not get rid of LE, although he probably would have. He got stuck with Morgan. Should he have kept him? The biggest concern I have with GMac is the fact that so many players have left his teams, and it wasn't like some of them where not good enough to play. At this point it is his team and he is the one that will make or break his coaching career at ISU.

[Bobber]

The biggest concern I have with GMac is the fact that so many players have left his teams, and it wasn't like some of them where not good enough to play. At this point it is his team and he is the one that will make or break his coaching career at ISU.

My goodness there's plenty of threads on this, but most of the defections were Wayne Morgan recruits or Juco players who had problems. None of that is Greg's fault. The past doesn't concern me. If it happens in the future I will be concerned, but if he keeps on bringing in players like Wes Johnson, Craig Brakins, and Diante Garret we have nothing to worry about.

[Angie]

A couple questions. Was this really in 2002 or 2003, or was it in 2001 a day or two after we lost to Hampton and you just couldn't remember the year? I think it could make a difference if this was right after the game and he was saying some irrational things out of frustration or if this is after he had a year or two to think about it.

Also, was your husband drunk at the time? Not accusing you or him of anything, but maybe some context was lost if he was also drunk.

I just double-checked. It was definitely not the year we lost to Hampton. Jon wasn't working for that company at that time yet.

I asked that, too. He'd had a couple of beers over the course of the night, but wasn't drunk. He's a pretty big LE guy, so he was excited at the time to meet him.

I truly hope nobody was offended. My story really wasn't to say anything about point-shaving. It was more just the drunk story, and how much I don't think we'll get that from McDermott ever. No desire to derail the thread at all - I was just illustrating why I am comfortable with where we're going.

[mwitt]

My goodness there's plenty of threads on this, but most of the defections were Wayne Morgan recruits or Juco players who had problems. None of that is Greg's fault. The past doesn't concern me. If it happens in the future I will be concerned, but if he keeps on bringing in players like Wes Johnson, Craig Brakins, and Diante Garret we have nothing to worry about.

For what it's worth, the average star rankings according to Rivals of the last two recruiting classes have been exactly 3, and last year's was skewed a bit with Brackins being a 5 star.

[Bobber]

I truly hope nobody was offended. My story really wasn't to say anything about point-shaving. It was more just the drunk story, and how much I don't think we'll get that from McDermott ever. No desire to derail the thread at all - I was just illustrating why I am comfortable with where we're going.

Oh Angie don't worry. Your story was about Larry Eustachy and he never seemed to be bothered offending people.

[kingcy]

I just double-checked. It was definitely not the year we lost to Hampton. Jon wasn't working for that company at that time yet.

I asked that, too. He'd had a couple of beers over the course of the night, but wasn't drunk. He's a pretty big LE guy, so he was excited at the time to meet him.

I truly hope nobody was offended. My story really wasn't to say anything about point-shaving. It was more just the drunk story, and how much I don't think we'll get that from McDermott ever. No desire to derail the thread at all - I was just illustrating why I am comfortable with where we're going.

I think a lot of people have good LE drinking stories. There were boosters turned off by his drinking before the famous pics were in the Register.

[Wesley]

Like water over the dam. LE is long gone.

[Chris]

On point of the original post, I think it's just a difficult task to try to compare pre and now JP because there has been so much change for one. The real question is are Cyclone Alumni and Fans going to trust the "plan" much like stockholders trust Management/Boards. In the end judgement is going to be passed mostly on won/loss records and/or titles won. JP knows that. Like any good Executive, JP presented his plan (across the board in all sports), made the changes he felt were needed to start the plan and begin movig it forward (and a few more changes already along the way). Now, the Coaches are the ones who have to implement and get it done. Sure I would have loved to see it happen in year one for Football and Basketball -every sport at ISU. But for FB and BB it hasn't - for Wrestling, Volleyball, even now with the start of Softball this year - it has come together faster (and is probably easier to do than than FB/BB), seeing good win/loss records, some titles. Look at the Women's BB team accomplishments this year under very difficult curcumstances! Football and Baseketball are requiring a little more time. I am sure JP has a time line of accomplishment for those programs too. From a total master plan and all sports standpiont, how can you argue against JP - things have gotten brighter and will continue to do so. I think he has done a remarkable job - I would say the same for the Head Coaches of each of the programs too: clearly they are striving to become better, and better over the long haul......

[cy1225]

Please don't read this if you think I am just being negative. I just got to thinking of this as I watched my neighbor move (ex track and field coach) and I pay my season football tickets that have gone up in price. I am a season ticket holder for Football, Men's and Women's Basketball, Wrestling and Volleyball. Have been for 10 years. I even travel with the team a lot. I went 11 out of 12 football games. I have been to 3 soon to be 4 away basketball games. I am going to St Louis for wrestling finals.

But, I am about as frustrated as I have ever been as a Cyclone Fan. I am not saying fire Pollard. I think he has done great things with facilities. I am not saying fire coaches. Chizek has not had enough time to get a fair shake.

But, I would rather have 25 wins and year and a coach that likes to get drunk with college chicks.


Football 2004

7-5 Independence Bowl Champs

Football 2007

3-9

Advantage Pre Pollard
Basketball 2004-05 Mens

19-12

Second Round of NCAA

Basketball 2007-08

14-15

Advantage Pre Pollard
Basketball 2004-05 Womens

24-7

Basketball 2007-08

19-9 Comparable because of injuries

Push

Wrestling

2004-05

Nationals 10th
Big 12 2nd

Wrestling

2007-08

Nationals TBD hopefully better than 10th
Big 12 TBD should finish no lower than 2nd

Advantage Pollard

Gymnastics

2004-05

5th in the Nation

2007-08

Struggling

Advantage Pre Pollard

Track and Field

Push

Volleyball

Advantage Pollard

Golf

Push

Soccer

Advantage Pre Pollard

Actually Volleyball would go to Pre-Pollard since BVDV hired the Head Coach.

[cy1225]

Last time I checked Mr. Pollard did not fire LE. If you think the football and mens basketball program were being lead by the guys that would have gotten us to the next level you are crazy! Wasn't Mr. Pollard the guy that gave coach fennely a lifetime contract. I think you are just bummed your neighbor is moving.

No he fired Wayne Morgan which is worse.

[isucyfan]

No he fired Wayne Morgan which is worse.

Let me be devil's advocate here...

Why couldn't BVDV get someone better than Morgan whose previous HC experience was a lackluster one at Long Beach State?

I know no one wanted to touch the program at the time, but JP has shown the ability to "pull a rabbit out of his hat" with the GC hiring, and GM hiring. Maybe he could have pulled off a better hiring.