Financial Question...

[Transient]

Anyone know what it would take, or where I could go to find published estimates about what we need to make our programs profitable (or at least more so), in light of our budget. Meaning about how many folks in the seats to make wrestling, volleyball, baseball profitable?
Also is there any talk of making Hockey a varsity sport?

[Kyle]

I have no idea as to any source, but I do know that profitability depends on a lot more than the number of butts in seats. Ticket prices are another huge factor, as are donation levels. There are certainly some other smaller factors as well, such as media revenues, parking fees, coaches salaries, maintenance, etc.

[sloaner]

Originally Posted by Transient

Anyone know what it would take, or where I could go to find published estimates about what we need to make our programs profitable (or at least more so), in light of our budget. Meaning about how many folks in the seats to make wrestling, volleyball, baseball profitable?
Also is there any talk of making Hockey a varsity sport?

I really do not think the olympic sorts programs can ever be profitable. The best we can hope for is that all the scholarhships for the various programs get endowed. it would greatly improve the financials of the athletic department. fr that to happen, a special donor or donors need to come along that truly have a love for one of those sports. I could actually see this happening with the wrestling program before the others.
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[ornryactor]

Originally Posted by Transient

Also is there any talk of making Hockey a varsity sport?

There has always been talk of making men's hockey a varsity sport, but nothing more than idle chat. To my memory, Jamie has only addressed the topic once, and quite a while back at that. I recall him saying that he would like us to eventually compete in hockey at the Division I level, but that there were significant obstacles to that goal. Basically he insinuated that he'll make it happen eventually, given enough time here at ISU, but he's far more concerned with taking our existing stable of varsity sports and improving them first.

As it stands right now, we're really in a pretty good spot. Our men's hockey program is quite well-known (since our coach pretty much invented college hockey) and is always quite successful. We do a good job of recruiting- yes, a club sport recruits!- and the team gets a lot of support from the student body and the community alike. I think it will be good for us to eventually move up to NCAA competition, but until we do, maintaining the status quo is actually a very positive outlook.

[d4nim4l]

Originally Posted by ornryactor

There has always been talk of making men's hockey a varsity sport, but nothing more than idle chat. To my memory, Jamie has only addressed the topic once, and quite a while back at that. I recall him saying that he would like us to eventually compete in hockey at the Division I level, but that there were significant obstacles to that goal. Basically he insinuated that he'll make it happen eventually, given enough time here at ISU, but he's far more concerned with taking our existing stable of varsity sports and improving them first.

I actually heard the one time that Jamie brought this up. You are pretty much right. It's on his list mainly because he is using the model that Wisconsin used to turn their athletic department around. Obviously they have a very successful NCAA D-I program. He did say baseball is a higher priority (as it should be, and I'm a hockey fan) but you hit the nail on the head. Given enough time, he'd love hockey to be there in the mix as well.

Also of note, there is a requirement for at least a stadium that seats 4,000 for a team to be able to compete at the NCAA level. We currently do not have that at the Ames/ISU Ice Arena but if people look carefully at the Hilton renovation plans they'll see that the angle of the lower level was being change to accomodate a hockey rink.

As it stands now, Hilton can host hockey games but there is no ice level seating. The closest seating available is in the parquet and really removes you from the action. A change to how they do the lower level would remedy this.

[superman_101680]

Would ISU not have to add a women's sport if they add hockey? I understand the school might be ok since the university has more men than women (% rule), but adding another men's sport seems unlikely to me.

[aeroclone08]

Another hurdle is the Big XII doesn't sponsor hockey as a conference sport, we'd have to align with a different conference. I'd think (and hope) JP would focus on the Big XII sports first.

[ornryactor]

Originally Posted by aeroclone08

Another hurdle is the Big XII doesn't sponsor hockey as a conference sport, we'd have to align with a different conference. I'd think (and hope) JP would focus on the Big XII sports first.

Hockey conferences are a totally different ballgame (if you'll pardon the expression). No "regular" conference sponsors hockey, even though the NCAA recognizes it. Instead, there are six D-I hockey conferences (four for women). Of all the men's teams, there are only seven BCS schools plus Army. Almost all of the schools competing at NCAA level are much, much smaller; men's hockey is probably their primary sport, maybe alongside men's basketball.

Outside of the NCAA, pretty much all club teams are members of the ACHA. There are different skill divisions and conferences within the ACHA. Men's D-I has six conferences, and D-III has eight. D-II is split into four regions, rather than individual conferences. Women's hockey only has D-I (18 teams) and D-II (28 teams). Looks like both divisions have conferences, but no information is available online. (Iowa State women compete in D-II.)

Here are the ten Big XII men's hockey programs:

Colorado- DII, ACHA (West)
Iowa State- DI, ACHA (CSCHL)
Kansas- DII, ACHA (MACHA)
Mizzou- DII, ACHA (MACHA)
Nebraska- DII, ACHA
Baylor- DII, ACHA
Oklahoma- DI, ACHA (Independent)
Texas- DII, ACHA
Texas A&M- DII, ACHA (SCIHA)
Texas Tech- DII, ACHA (West)

Oklahoma State has contact information for a men's team listed on their rec services club sports page, but I can't find any other mention of the team. Maybe they exist, maybe they don't.

Kansas State doesn't have a hockey team, but they are REALLY into roller hockey over there. So is Oklahoma State, for that matter.

None of this changes hockey's pecking order in sport upgrades, but conference alignment is also not a problem in the slightest, if and when we do move up to NCAA level.

[Transient]

Thanks for all the great posts!!

[Wesley]

Maybe the cold schools could recruit better hockey players....

[Psyclone]

Originally Posted by d4nim4l

I actually heard the one time that Jamie brought this up. You are pretty much right. It's on his list mainly because he is using the model that Wisconsin used to turn their athletic department around. Obviously they have a very successful NCAA D-I program. He did say baseball is a higher priority (as it should be, and I'm a hockey fan) but you hit the nail on the head. Given enough time, he'd love hockey to be there in the mix as well.

Also of note, there is a requirement for at least a stadium that seats 4,000 for a team to be able to compete at the NCAA level. We currently do not have that at the Ames/ISU Ice Arena but if people look carefully at the Hilton renovation plans they'll see that the angle of the lower level was being change to accomodate a hockey rink.

As it stands now, Hilton can host hockey games but there is no ice level seating. The closest seating available is in the parquet and really removes you from the action. A change to how they do the lower level would remedy this.

I assume you did not know that they played hockey in Hilton when it was first built. I believe the ice under the basketball court caused moisture on the basketball floor, so that ended it. I attended some hockey games in Hilton and even skated there myself.

[Psyclone]

Originally Posted by ornryactor

Here are the ten Big XII men's hockey programs:

Colorado- DII, ACHA (West)
Iowa State- DI, ACHA (CSCHL)
Kansas- DII, ACHA (MACHA)
Mizzou- DII, ACHA (MACHA)
Nebraska- DII, ACHA
Baylor- DII, ACHA
Oklahoma- DI, ACHA (Independent)
Texas- DII, ACHA
Texas A&M- DII, ACHA (SCIHA)
Texas Tech- DII, ACHA (West)

None of this changes hockey's pecking order in sport upgrades, but conference alignment is also not a problem in the slightest, if and when we do move up to NCAA level.

So you are saying if we do move up to NCAA level, we will win a lot of Big 12 championships in that sport.

[d4nim4l]

Originally Posted by Psyclone

I assume you did not know that they played hockey in Hilton when it was first built. I believe the ice under the basketball court caused moisture on the basketball floor, so that ended it. I attended some hockey games in Hilton and even skated there myself.

I do remember hearing about this. I think the issue nowadays is the fact that it isn't optimal with the way seating is arranged. I would imagine that with technology nowadays that the ice would no longer be an issue.

Would ISU not have to add a women's sport if they add hockey? I understand the school might be ok since the university has more men than women (% rule), but adding another men's sport seems unlikely to me.

The thought could be given to making women's hockey a varsity sport at the same time. The problem with that is the talent that is pulled in is not comparative to what the men's team can pull in.

The men's team currently can pull in guys who have played Junior A/B hockey and some are good enough to be 3rd/4th liners at the D-I level. The women get a lot of walk-ons.

Let's put it this way...my girlfriend never played until college and joined the women's team for a few years.

[Bader]

Originally Posted by Psyclone

So you are saying if we do move up to NCAA level, we will win a lot of Big 12 championships in that sport.

If you guys have never seen any of the Frozen Four...watch it! It is seriously some of the most physical intense hockey I've ever seen! Also, the ISU Illinois hockey games tend to get dirty and exciting to watch as well if you've never been