Could the Big XII survive mass exodus?

[azn4cy]

Love it! NCAA Front Office 2011 featuring Myles Brand on the cover.

I'm going to create the character Don Beebe and simulate the game as I watch idly.

[LutherClone]

I'm going to create the character Don Beebe and simulate the game as I watch idly.

azn4cy, you are quickly becoming my favorite poster. KEEP UP THE GOOD WORK!

[Clonehomer]

Very good post. Although I think your Big 12 West division needs at least one team with experience in a BCS conference just to add balance.

Well, Boise and Utah have been in BCS games more recently than anyone left from the Big12.

[Peter]

Getting killed by Kansas or Kansas State doesn't help your prestige. They'll both lose 1-2 games in the WCC and a few non-conference games and walk into the NCAA tournament. Gonzaga and St. Mary's BOTH have more respect than Iowa State currently does, and we play in a real conference. Everyone knows those programs, and everyone knows they're NCAA tournament teams year-in year-out.

I disagree. If they are legit programs then I don't think they get killed by the Kansas schools. I think any team that takes itself seriously wouldn't back away from top competition. Plus its a big boost to recruiting if players know they will get to play against national powers.

No one knows if a team is NCAA caliber unless it proves itself and there isn't any better way to prove yourself than to produce a winning record in a tough conference. Marquette could have stayed in conference USA and dominated but they chose to jump ship to the Big East in 2005. Since then They've become a nationally recognized, top 25 school. I'm not saying St. Mary's, Gonzaga, and Creighton WOULD join the Big XII, I'm just saying that they would at least be tempted.

[DSM4Cy]

I think the Big XII could survive, merely because there would be 4 remaining teams, which is enough to ensure that the conference is not dissolved (9 votes being necessary for that). We'd also still have the bowl tie-ins and the AQ for the BCS. If the Big Ten/16 and the Pac-10/16 happen, the Big East would likely lose Rutgers, Syracuse, and Pittsburgh to the Big Ten, so they'd be in the same shape as us, football-wise. Why wouldn't we try to combine with the remaining teams from that conference, minus the ones that are too far away geographically (UConn and USF, which could go to the ACC), as well as the top teams from the West that want in an AQ conference? We have the initiative to, with our BCS bid remaining. I think it could look like this:

East
Cincinnati
Louisville
West Virginia
K-State
Kansas
Iowa State

West
Baylor
Utah
BYU
TCU
Air Force
Boise State

The rest of MWC and WAC could combine, or some schools could join the Sun Belt or C-USA. This puts everyone in the best possible position, with the Big XII and Big East schools staying in an AQ league, and the "best of the West" getting what they want, which is BCS eligibility. Plus, this would be a very competitive league, with no doubt of keeping a BCS bid, and travel costs wouldn't be too high, with the worst being if West Virginia would have to travel to Boise, which would be only once every 4 years in football if you schedule like we have now in the Big XII.

[IcSyU]

I disagree. If they are legit schools then I don't think they get killed by the Kansas Schools. Plus I think any team that takes itself seriously wouldn't back away from top competition. Plus its a big boost to recruiting if players know they will get to play against national powers.

No one knows if a team is NCAA caliber unless it proves itself and there isn't any better way to prove yourself than to produce a winning record in a tough conference. Marquette could have stayed in conference USA and dominated that conference but they chose to jump ship to the Big East in 2005. Since then They've become a nationally recognized top 25 school. I'm not saying St. Mary's, Gonzaga, and Creighton WOULD join the Big XII, I'm just saying that would at least be tempted.

Gonzaga and St. Mary's don't need a big boost. They can say we go to the NCAA tournament every year. The fact that they get to the Sweet 16 damn near annually just shows they're an NCAA caliber team, not to mention spending all year ranked in the top 25.

Not to mention they already get their games on ESPN all the time.

[istater7]

I think the Big XII could survive, merely because there would be 4 remaining teams, which is enough to ensure that the conference is not dissolved (9 votes being necessary for that). We'd also still have the bowl tie-ins and the AQ for the BCS. If the Big Ten/16 and the Pac-10/16 happen, the Big East would likely lose Rutgers, Syracuse, and Pittsburgh to the Big Ten, so they'd be in the same shape as us, football-wise. Why wouldn't we try to combine with the remaining teams from that conference, minus the ones that are too far away geographically (UConn and USF, which could go to the ACC), as well as the top teams from the West that want in an AQ conference? We have the initiative to, with our BCS bid remaining. I think it could look like this:

East
Cincinnati
Louisville
West Virginia
K-State
Kansas
Iowa State

West
Baylor
Utah
BYU
TCU
Air Force
Boise State

The rest of MWC and WAC could combine, or some schools could join the Sun Belt or C-USA. This puts everyone in the best possible position, with the Big XII and Big East schools staying in an AQ league, and the "best of the West" getting what they want, which is BCS eligibility. Plus, this would be a very competitive league, with no doubt of keeping a BCS bid, and travel costs wouldn't be too high, with the worst being if West Virginia would have to travel to Boise, which would be only once every 4 years in football if you schedule like we have now in the Big XII.

i would take boise or air force out and put memphis in their place. boise is too much travel and air force isnt all that great, plus you need to think about basketball, not just football

[DSM4Cy]

i would take boise or air force out and put memphis in their place. boise is too much travel and air force isnt all that great, plus you need to think about basketball, not just football

Good ideas. You could also pick a different MWC school, like New Mexico or UNLV, instead of Air Force. I know that they aren't great in football, but they are solid in other sports and open up some good markets for the league, like Vegas and Albuquerque. And you're right, Memphis would be a solid choice instead of Boise (too far west) and they might be willing to leave C-USA to gain some more competition, especially in basketball.

[LutherClone]

I think the Big XII could survive, merely because there would be 4 remaining teams, which is enough to ensure that the conference is not dissolved (9 votes being necessary for that). We'd also still have the bowl tie-ins and the AQ for the BCS. If the Big Ten/16 and the Pac-10/16 happen, the Big East would likely lose Rutgers, Syracuse, and Pittsburgh to the Big Ten, so they'd be in the same shape as us, football-wise. Why wouldn't we try to combine with the remaining teams from that conference, minus the ones that are too far away geographically (UConn and USF, which could go to the ACC), as well as the top teams from the West that want in an AQ conference? We have the initiative to, with our BCS bid remaining. I think it could look like this:

East
Cincinnati
Louisville
West Virginia
K-State
Kansas
Iowa State

West
Baylor
Utah
BYU
TCU
Air Force
Boise State

The rest of MWC and WAC could combine, or some schools could join the Sun Belt or C-USA. This puts everyone in the best possible position, with the Big XII and Big East schools staying in an AQ league, and the "best of the West" getting what they want, which is BCS eligibility. Plus, this would be a very competitive league, with no doubt of keeping a BCS bid, and travel costs wouldn't be too high, with the worst being if West Virginia would have to travel to Boise, which would be only once every 4 years in football if you schedule like we have now in the Big XII.

I like this, but you have to remeber that at this point, we'd be fighting the ACC and SEC because they'd likely feel pressured to expand to 16.

[DSM4Cy]

I like this, but you have to remeber that at this point, we'd be fighting the ACC and SEC because they'd likely feel pressured to expand to 16.

It doesn't seem like the SEC is that interested in expansion, and a lot of those schools don't really fit their "mold," mostly being that they're not in the South. The ACC, I can see, but once again, I don't think they're that interested, although in my suggestion, I figured that they would probably take UConn (too far east, good in basketball) and USF (too far south & east, growing school and population), so they'd already have 14.

[Incyte]

Good ideas. You could also pick a different MWC school, like New Mexico or UNLV, instead of Air Force. I know that they aren't great in football, but they are solid in other sports and open up some good markets for the league, like Vegas and Albuquerque. And you're right, Memphis would be a solid choice instead of Boise (too far west) and they might be willing to leave C-USA to gain some more competition, especially in basketball.

I think KU would want to have NM to help with the BB prestige of the conference. IMO, BSU is really all smoke and mirrors. I'm not sure they even get invited to the MWC next week.

[DSM4Cy]

I think KU would want to have NM to help with the BB prestige of the conference. IMO, BSU is really all smoke and mirrors. I'm not sure they even get invited to the MWC next week.

If Boise didn't have success in football the past 10 years, they would NEVER be thought of for expansion. Their other sports are horrible, for the most part, and their university is nothing special. So, you're right, I probably shouldn't have put Boise on there, not when you have other choices like Houston or Memphis out there.

[LutherClone]

It doesn't seem like the SEC is that interested in expansion, and a lot of those schools don't really fit their "mold," mostly being that they're not in the South. The ACC, I can see, but once again, I don't think they're that interested, although in my suggestion, I figured that they would probably take UConn (too far east, good in basketball) and USF (too far south & east, growing school and population), so they'd already have 14.

I'll look for the article, but there is one that has the SEC president saying that he isn't in favor of an expansion, but is making plans for if they need to. I'll look for it, it was a month ago or so, but after all of this business there are so many articles, I have my work cut out for me!

Point is, if they're really making plans incase they "have to expand," what would be more of a "have to expand" moment than the Big Ten, PAC-10 and ACC moving to sixteen?

[DSM4Cy]

I'll look for the article, but there is one that has the SEC president saying that he isn't in favor of an expansion, but is making plans for if they need to. I'll look for it, it was a month ago or so, but after all of this business there are so many articles, I have my work cut out for me!

Point is, if they're really making plans incase they "have to expand," what would be more of a "have to expand" moment than the Big Ten, PAC-10 and ACC moving to sixteen?

I agree that they might feel pressured to, but who would be left for them to recruit? Schools like TCU, Houston, and Memphis are NOT at the level necessary to compete in the SEC, considering how rich of a conference that is, and those are almost all of the schools left. I guess the SEC could add Kansas, K-State, and Baylor, and find one other school, but I don't see any of those schools fitting into that conference well. Basically, they might feel that they have to expand, but who would they take? Who is really left at that point?

[LutherClone]

I agree that they might feel pressured to, but who would be left for them to recruit? Schools like TCU, Houston, and Memphis are NOT at the level necessary to compete in the SEC, considering how rich of a conference that is, and those are almost all of the schools left. I guess the SEC could add Kansas, K-State, and Baylor, and find one other school, but I don't see any of those schools fitting into that conference well. Basically, they might feel that they have to expand, but who would they take? Who is really left at that point?

I posted this in another thread:

You know, I think the BEST case for us is if Texas heads to the Big Television with its army of *****s. That would allow the SEC to raid the Big East (USF and Louisville?) to make it to 14 and allow the ACC to do the same (West Virginia/Pitt/Rutgers?). The Big Twelve could back fill the South with Cincy/TCU/Memphis/Houston/Notre Dame(? hey, OU's still around) etc and realign to make even divisions of 12 or 14 (I'm not convinced everyone wants to move to 14-16... sounds like the Big 12 currently doesn't want to). Then the PAC-10 could take Utah/ BYU/ Boise/ etc.

I know we're all tired of hypotheticals and this is just another. But it does help ease my mind. I'm a little worried and this looks like a way we could survive. It would suck for Syracuse, UCONN, and Pitt/Rutgers/or WV, but it's better for us. I really think it's telling that the letters from JP/GG, Lew, and KState when the rumors from the west came. THAT, would be the deathknell. And that, would be trouble

For I! For S! Forever! (No matter the conference.)