I'd be surprised to see University itself raised. The really vulnerable spot is north of Lincoln way, by the train bridge. Meaning they'd have to raise the Lincoln way instersection as well. Not so mention S 4th and possibly S 16th. That's alot of raising, A LOT of work. 4 lane divided road.
And frankly, not sure I'd like that idea. It'd be gov't and they'd do the bare minimum. Seems that it'd be easier to put a larger berm around Hilton, MWL and Lied - like you suggested. Could be higher (if only a foot or two) and I'd think far less costly, and wouldn't have the impact on the east side of the creek (pushing water there).
Putting a flood gate on that train bridge would be a good start. But looking at the photos, I completely forgot about the creek that runs through campus, between Lied & MWL, and empties into Squaw. What the heck do you do there?
Another problem is if you make a berm out of University and we get another event like this, that water still needs to go somewhere. You will slow down the flow where Squaw Creek parallels University which will increase levels up stream (Veenker, University Village, etc), and will increase flows directly downstream (Coldwater, Duff Ave, etc.).
So while Hilton and the ISU Center may be spared next time, other areas would probably become more prone.
Last edited by chuckd4735; 08-19-2010 at 01:34 PM.
I don't think they'd actually need to raise University Boulevard much at all to make it effective. There was only a foot or so of water over the road, so if you raised it a couple feet from 4th to Lincoln Way, you prevent water from going through there. If you raise Lincoln Way a couple feet where there was about a foot of water, you alleviate the north side. Center Drive is a natural barrier, and Beach also provides a natural barrier so the ISC is protected. Flood gates on the tunnels and Hilton/Scheman/CY Stephens are sealed off. If they lose the parking lots between JTS and Hilton, oh well.
The little creek that runs through campus is the least of their worries.
I don't really disagree with any of that. But if that's all you're doing, not sure why you don't cut that cost by 1/xth and just levee around the ISC? Like you said, if the lots go... oh well. Soccer field kinda sucks, but much easier (and cheaper) to just move a game or two.
Frankly, I think you leave Center drive alone, except you loose the two east most entrances to the lots immediately next to Hilton (or raise the drives to go over a berm/levee) For as few spots as are there, I'd think a possibly expanded access to the West by C.Y.'s would suffice.
My point about the creek was if they wanted to raise University clear back to 6th, in order to protect all of ISC, MWL, Lied, etc. Can't make that creek just go away...
Another problem is if you make a berm out of University and we get another event like this, that water still needs to go somewhere. You will slow down the flow where Squaw Creek meets Lincoln Way which will increase levels up stream (Veenker and University Village), and will increase flows directly downstream (Coldwater, Duff Ave, etc.).
So while Hilton and the ISU Center may be spared next time, other areas would probably become more prone.
Veenker there's nothing they can do. The majority of the course sits on low ground and everything around it is higher. Coldwater is pretty much the same story, along with Duff. Because they're in the flood plain, there's not a lot they can do to protect that expansive of a land area. Hilton and the ISC are in the flood plain, but able to be protected with a little work. The displacement of the water that was in/around Hilton dispersed over that land area would minimally affect the area as a whole.
Another problem is if you make a berm out of University and we get another event like this, that water still needs to go somewhere. You will slow down the flow where Squaw Creek parallels University which will increase levels up stream (Veenker, University Village, etc), and will increase flows directly downstream (Coldwater, Duff Ave, etc.).
So while Hilton and the ISU Center may be spared next time, other areas would probably become more prone.
True, so if you're only protecting the ISC, how much of the thousands and thousands of acres (miles and miles, actually) of the flood plain are you really impacting? The ISC is on the edge of the plain and sits on maybe 8-10 acres?
My point about the creek was if they wanted to raise University clear back to 6th, in order to protect all of ISC, MWL, Lied, etc. Can't make that creek just go away...
That creek probably isn't even an issue. Put a flood gate where it meets Squaw to control the flow back upstreams and it would be fine. There isn't enough sources of water for it to overflow too badly without the help of Squaw going up considerably.
Wrong wrong wrong. They did not place things correctly. The water should have been held back if they were prepared/knew what they were doing.
Just curious where you were 3 weeks ago raising the alarm that they weren't prepared for a third 500 year flood in the span of 20 years which would be even higher than the last two in '93 and '08.
I myself am now curious as to why no one is out redesigning the MU, Carver, Curtis, Parks, and all the other buildings on campus to withstand an F5 tornado.
You're right though they should have totally been able to predict at the time in 1993 that after not having such severe flooding for centuries that we would have 2 more in the next 2 decades. Damn when will they learn!!!
Revisionist history is fun. No natural disaster in the history of mankind would ever cause damage if people would have been prepared/knew what they were doing.
That creek probably isn't even an issue. Put a flood gate where it meets Squaw to control the flow back upstreams and it would be fine. There isn't enough sources of water for it to overflow too badly without the help of Squaw going up considerably.
We're clearly not on the same page. That creek isn't exactly major, but it's not often dried up either. So if Squaw is to the point it's threatening Hilton, probably safe to say that the creek is going to be high as well. I don't know for sure, but it's probably also the release for many of the storm sewers and parking lots and roads on campus.
One way or another, it's getting from the west side of University to the east side. You block off that flow, it's going to fill up rather fast on the west side.
Really, it's just another arguement to not use University as a levee, but rather levee individual areas. Let the water have University and Lincoln way, the soccer fields and parking lots. Just protect the immediate areas around the buildings.
I did NOT stay at a Holiday Inn express last night.
Just curious where you were 3 weeks ago raising the alarm that they weren't prepared for a third 500 year flood in the span of 20 years which would be even higher than the last two in '93 and '08.
I myself am now curious as to why no one is out redesigning the MU, Carver, Curtis, Parks, and all the other buildings on campus to withstand an F5 tornado.
You're right though they should have totally been able to predict at the time in 1993 that after not having such severe flooding for centuries that we would have 2 more in the next 2 decades. Damn when will they learn!!!
Revisionist history is fun. No natural disaster in the history of mankind would ever cause damage if people would have been prepared/knew what they were doing.
Agreed. Not to mention that a lot of this was due to the speed at which this rolled through. Not only did we have a lot of water, but we got a lot of water in a very short period of time.
We're clearly not on the same page. That creek isn't exactly major, but it's not often dried up either. So if Squaw is to the point it's threatening Hilton, probably safe to say that the creek is going to be high as well. One way or another, it's getting from the west side of University to the east side. You block off that flow, it's going to fill up rather fast on the west side.
Really, it's just another arguement to not use University as a levee, but rather levee individual areas.
I did NOT stay at a Holiday Inn express last night.
Normally, there are 12-16" of water in that creek by Lied and Gerdin. I walk across it nearly daily, and even when it rains a ton, the water level is never extremely high. The morning all the roads were shut down, there were MAYBE 4' of water in the creek back by Gerdin and about the same over by Lied when I walked through. On each side of the creek, there are 8-10' of bank before it would actually get out. Its when Squaw completely takes over that whole side of campus that it gets out of control, not that creek.
Normally, there are 12-16" of water in that creek by Lied and Gerdin. I walk across it nearly daily, and even when it rains a ton, the water level is never extremely high. The morning all the roads were shut down, there were MAYBE 4' of water in the creek back by Gerdin and about the same over by Lied when I walked through. On each side of the creek, there are 8-10' of bank before it would actually get out. Its when Squaw completely takes over that whole side of campus that it gets out of control, not that creek.
So if you put a flood gate over there, and that 4' of water can't escape, how fast do you think things are going to become an issue?
4' of flowing water is ALOT of water.
We can agree to disagree as neither of us will make the call. But I don't see how one would use University as a levee, thus needed to dam up the tunnel with which that creek outfeeds, without causing problems from that creek. You aren't going to have many issues with the amount of water coming out of your sink faucet either.... til you close the drain.
Edit: That creek is only 12-16"? I worked for Parks & Rec and was there in '93. How deep do you think Squaw Creek typically is? Most of the summer, I could walk from one side of Brookside park to the other if I really wanted to and not have it get to my knees. Not exactly like it's the Mississippi either. Well, except for once every thousand years (LOL)
Edit: That creek is only 12-16"? I worked for Parks & Rec and was there in '93. How deep do you think Squaw Creek typically is? Most of the summer, I could walk from one side of Brookside park to the other if I really wanted to and not have it get to my knees.
Squaw has enough water to have a pretty decent flow, and the mini-waterfall that I'm guessing is supposed to be a damn just south of Lincoln Way would suggest to me its at least a few feet deep. Back up by Veenker where it goes under Stange I wouldn't be surprised at all if that was 8-10" feet deep.
The little creek only goes from the MU back to the Gerdin Parking Ramp behind Oak-Elm and along the south side of Lied. The only water that ends up in it is rain fall, because damn near everything else flows into storm drains and nothing empties into that. I'm guessing around Lied, there would have to be 10-12' of water for it to get out of the banks, and that would take a TON of water since there's a lot of space north of Oak-Elm to essentially be a reservoir. There have only been a handful of days since I got to Iowa State in '07 that I haven't been able to see the creekbed.
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