JVB and SC: Slow Caucasians?

**Cloned4Life** · 01-17-2011, 10:00 AM

Originally Posted by Cydkar

I consider JVB to be slow and unathletic. For a Big 12 player, anyway. Great shooter though.

I actually think Jamie has pretty good athleticism for his size. Watch him run down the court - he's got pretty good speed. And isn't he still one of the leading shot blockers in the conference? That takes athleticism.

He showed his athleticism twice against Virginia. The move in the first half where he took his man off the dribble and did a spinning turnaround jumper to beat the shot clock was awesome. In the second half, he pump faked and took it to the whole hard off the baseline for the bucket and the foul. A 'slow, white, big with no handle' can't make those plays...

Jamie has some sort of future playing basketball if he wants it. He's a unique talent with that shooting ability.

**Cloned4Life** · 01-17-2011, 10:04 AM

Originally Posted by Yes13

What's funny about this is Scotty is more athletic than LaceDarius Dunn. Dunn gets like an inch off the ground on his shots. He has no chance in the NBA with that low of a release point.

Dunn is a great athlete. Just because he doesn't jump on his jumpers doesn't mean otherwise. Re-watch the tape - some of his drives to the hoop and finishes were incredible. And he normally never misses dunks like he did in the first half. We got lucky there.

With his size and shooting/scoring ability, I have no doubt he can play in the NBA. Very glad we don't have to play him again.

With that said, I also think Scotty is a really good athlete too, with solid speed and quickness and the ability (some if not most of the time) to get his own shot.

**Yes13** · 01-17-2011, 10:33 AM

Originally Posted by Cloned4Life

Dunn is a great athlete. Just because he doesn't jump on his jumpers doesn't mean otherwise. Re-watch the tape - some of his drives to the hoop and finishes were incredible. And he normally never misses dunks like he did in the first half. We got lucky there.

With his size and shooting/scoring ability, I have no doubt he can play in the NBA. Very glad we don't have to play him again.

With that said, I also think Scotty is a really good athlete too, with solid speed and quickness and the ability (some if not most of the time) to get his own shot.

I'm a Sixers fan, and I've watched Evan Turner play in college. He wasn't much of a leaper either, but he was crafty and could get his shot off in college. In the pros it's almost pathetic to watch him try to do his same little drives to the hoop only to get blocked by the guy guarding him (he's too slow to drive by his guy). Dunn is the same kind of "athlete". Dunn won't last in the NBA. He is great in college though, could do really well in Europe.

**marothisu** · 01-17-2011, 10:41 AM

Originally Posted by CYlent Bob

Just finished reading the whole 34-page meltdown thread over at the Baylor site, and it amazes me that they came into the game thinking that Scotty and Jamie were practically members of the Washington Generals.

"I can't believe we're getting torched by unathletic white guys!"

This got me thinkin', and I guess I maybe CAN see why someone who doesn't watch ISU on a regular basis would think that JVB and SC are slow and unathletic. If you don't realize that our bench is stretched so thin that both of these guys played 35+ minutes last night (35 for Jamie, 39 for Scotty), then maybe you could see these guys playing against opponents who get regular stretches on the bench and judge them to be "unathletic".

This also explains why Jamie is apparently so "bad" defensively in the post. If your only replacement is an inexperienced freshman, it makes no sense to try and play shut-down defense down low. Don't get me wrong, I'd LOVE to see JVB give us 25-30 minutes of shutdown defense before fouling out - but what he NEEDS to give us is 35+ minutes of good defense.

And that's even before you factor in the bone spurs in Scotty's elbow and the tendonitis that Jamie has been playing with.

As far as their "white guys" and "cracker" comments go.....well, yeah; no **** Sherlock. Dudes are pretty pasty white. No helping that without hours spent in a tanning booth, and then we'd have to have trainers screening them for melanomas as well as all their existing medical issues; so I guess we're stuck with "pasty white" for the time being.

I would call JVB unathletic compared to the rest of the Big 12. He's about average athleticism for a low mid major or certain high mid majors. He doesn't run fast, not very strong, but is a good shooter (you don't have to be athletic to be a good shooter).

Scott is not unathletic though. He can be fast when he wants, and he does drive inside sometimes with success. Probably much stronger than people give him credit for.

**Cyclonepride** · 01-17-2011, 10:47 AM

Originally Posted by Yes13

What's funny about this is Scotty is more athletic than LaceDarius Dunn. Dunn gets like an inch off the ground on his shots. He has no chance in the NBA with that low of a release point.

I thought that was strange too! On the one step-back three from the sideline, I though he had gotten off stride because his feet looked funny, but after seeing another shot, I noticed that he hardly jumps at all.

**marothisu** · 01-17-2011, 10:58 AM

Originally Posted by Yes13

What's funny about this is Scotty is more athletic than LaceDarius Dunn. Dunn gets like an inch off the ground on his shots. He has no chance in the NBA with that low of a release point.

Shooting is more technique than athleticism. I was making college range three pointers in 5th grade, but I wasn't very athletic back then. I was just taught good technique and it carried over. Ask me to drive inside back then and I'd never make a basket and always get blocked.

**Cloned4Life** · 01-17-2011, 10:59 AM

Originally Posted by Yes13

I'm a Sixers fan, and I've watched Evan Turner play in college. He wasn't much of a leaper either, but he was crafty and could get his shot off in college. In the pros it's almost pathetic to watch him try to do his same little drives to the hoop only to get blocked by the guy guarding him (he's too slow to drive by his guy). Dunn is the same kind of "athlete". Dunn won't last in the NBA. He is great in college though, could do really well in Europe.

Disagree. What I am saying is Dunn is very athletic and a very good jumper with a good vertical. He just doesn't jump when he shoots, that's all. He releases it very quickly though. He's a scorer with a lot of all-around ability. He'll get his chances in the NBA.

**flander1649** · 01-17-2011, 11:43 AM

Originally Posted by Yes13

What's funny about this is Scotty is more athletic than LaceDarius Dunn. Dunn gets like an inch off the ground on his shots. He has no chance in the NBA with that low of a release point.

Have you seen Dunn dunk the ball he can get up. He just doesn't use his legs much on his jump shot.

**Cyclonepride** · 01-17-2011, 11:46 AM

Originally Posted by Cloned4Life

Disagree. What I am saying is Dunn is very athletic and a very good jumper with a good vertical. He just doesn't jump when he shoots, that's all. He releases it very quickly though. He's a scorer with a lot of all-around ability. He'll get his chances in the NBA.

If I were an NBA scout, that would be a check against him. He may be able to get away with that at 6'4 playing against 5'10 to 6'4 guards in college, but he's going to get his shot swatted back by NBA guards who can be 6'6 to 6'9 and jump out of the gym.

**CycloneWanderer** · 01-17-2011, 11:51 AM

Originally Posted by flander1649

Have you seen Dunn dunk the ball he can get up. He just doesn't use his legs much on his jump shot.

If anything, this just convinces me he has been poorly coached. Using your legs is a pretty important aspect of good shooting form. How the heck do people consider Scott Drew a good coach?

**marothisu** · 01-17-2011, 12:42 PM

It's hilarious people giving Dunn ****, even though he's averaging over 22 points a game this year and almost 20 a game in big 12 conference play.

Reminds me of the time in 2008 Texas beat us in OT, people were talking **** about AJ Abrams and how he's too small. Oh wait, except for the fact he torched us for around 30 points and pretty much single handedly beat us down the stretch.

You know, I am a big cyclone fan, and do not like Baylor, but if you're going to talk ****, how about you talk **** about someone who doesn't score over 20 points a game, take down 5 rebounds a game, shoot 42% from 3 point range, 45% from the field, and shoot 83% from FT? Otherwise you just sound ******* ridiculous.

**Cloned4Life** · 01-17-2011, 03:03 PM

Originally Posted by Cyclonepride

If I were an NBA scout, that would be a check against him. He may be able to get away with that at 6'4 playing against 5'10 to 6'4 guards in college, but he's going to get his shot swatted back by NBA guards who can be 6'6 to 6'9 and jump out of the gym.

Well, you're not an NBA scout. And neither am I. But I'd wager he'll be just fine shooting the ball at the NBA level. He's made a TON of 3's in his career, and not all teams are throwing 5-10 guards at him.