DG - Career Turnovers Leader

[IcSyU]

All other factors being reasonably equal, a team with Jacy at point guard will beat a team with Diante at point guard EVERY TIME.

If DG pressed Jacy at all, he'd pick his pocket. Jacy wouldn't know how to deal with actually being defended. Stick Jacy on the team this year and they'd be a TON worse. You'd only have to guard Christopherson and JVB from the three point line out. None of the freshman are offensive threats. Christopherson would have to average 40 per game with JVB chipping in 20 for that team to even have a shot. Jimmer Fredette couldn't save that team.

With DG on the other hand...

[snowcraig2.0]

All other factors being reasonably equal, a team with Jacy at point guard will beat a team with Diante at point guard EVERY TIME.

Are you ******* kidding me? If you swap DG and Jacy onto each others respective teams we probably have at least one final four team, maybe even 2 during the Hoiberg / Willoughby era. This year with Jacy at the point we would have maybe 6 wins.

[Wesley]

People also forget that team Jacy played on was full of seniors. Cato, Bankhead, Pratt, Willoughby, and Holloway all were seniors. How often does that happen? Team off mature men helps

What Jacy did good was dribble the ball 18 inches off the floor and sneak it up the sidelines and then otuside of passing the ball off, his job was done on offense. He was the least guarded for shooting point guard in ISU history. He was like the Lonesome End in Army football.

[Clones85']

All other factors being reasonably equal, a team with Jacy at point guard will beat a team with Diante at point guard EVERY TIME.

I just realized your joking. You are joking....right?

[gocubs2118]

This argument is just dumb. DG is better than Jacy, don't know how anyone could argue otherwise. Just the fact that this is being argued shows that DG is the AA of the basketball team. People won't realize how important he is until he's gone.

[Rural]

You did watch the games, didn't you? Jacy will make the play that's needed in the clutch, Diante, for the most part, never does.

[khaal53]

My bad for not predicting this thread devolving into ripping on DG and Holloway...

Back to the original point, I just wanted to offer up the TO/Game comparison for those bagging on DG along with probable explanations for why his total turnover number is so high.

[CRAZYGREG]

Comparing Jacy to DG is comparing apples to oranges. They were two WAY different PGs.
Jacy was a game-manager and DG is a scorer. Jacy played great defense, got players into position and distributed the ball around to the playmakers and never turned it over. He was a team player and never needed to score.
DG tries to take the entire team on his back and carry them, whether that is needed or not. He makes TONS of mistakes. He turns the ball over. He takes terrible shots at inopportune times. He NEVER gets his teammates involved in the game. He plays TERRIBLE defense. He loses almost every game that is close at the end due to STUPID plays. He is an all around HORRIBLE team player. Probably the WORST clutch player to EVER play basketball!
This team has PLENTY of scoring options. JVB and Scotty are very capable to lighting it up from the outside. Jake could easily go off for 20+ any given game. Ejim and Godfrey do fine down low, not great mind you, but good enough. This team would be WAY better off with a game manager at the PG.

[VeloClone]

Quick, how many plays did Jacy Holloway make down the stretch of games.


TEAMS DIDN'T EVEN GUARD JACY HOLLOWAY!!! THEY PLAYED ESSESNTIALLY 5 ON 4 BECAUSE HE WAS THAT BAD ON OFFENSE!!!

Iowa State fans are so blinded by the wins that Dedric and co had that they don't realize that was a final four team with a decent PG. Holloway was terrible

I seem to remember a HUGE three pointer he hit against Kansas in the Big 8 Title game. Holloway was far from terrible. All that kid did was win. He won in high school (4 state titles) and in college. I realize he did not score much, however, he played like the coaching staff wanted him to. He took care of the ball and did not turn it over. He made players around him better by being a good floor general.

I don't want to get into the Jacy vs. Diante ******* match because there aren't enough o's in stoooopid for that argument.

I do have to defend the comments about Jacy, though. He was not bad at offense. He graduated from high school with the Kansas high school scoring record if I remember correctly. He is still the only Kansas high school basketball player to lead his team to 4 state championships as a 4 year starter. The teams were 99-4 with Jacy. He is still his high school's all time scoring leader (1639 points).

He played in the system that Floyd played exactly as the coach wanted him to play. Floyd even said that he didn't want Jacy putting up a shot if there were more than 4 seconds on the shot clock. If you heard an opposing coach say this in the media would you guard him even if you knew he could shoot? We don't know how effective he would have been in another system. He was asked to fill a role and he did it exactly as he was asked to. His head coach tried to recruit over him 4 times (remember Jacy came in with another point guard) and Jacy beat out all comers.

The kid was a winner.

I think it is impressive that he could be successful and help make the team as successful as it was when he went from a total scorer's mentality coming out of high school to the ultimate unselfish point guard in college. What a hugely difficult transition to have to make.

[Mr Janny]

Comparing Jacy to DG is comparing apples to oranges. They were two WAY different PGs.
Jacy was a game-manager and DG is a scorer. Jacy played great defense, got players into position and distributed the ball around to the playmakers and never turned it over. He was a team player and never needed to score.
DG tries to take the entire team on his back and carry them, whether that is needed or not. He makes TONS of mistakes. He turns the ball over. He takes terrible shots at inopportune times. He NEVER gets his teammates involved in the game. He plays TERRIBLE defense. He loses almost every game that is close at the end due to STUPID plays. He is an all around HORRIBLE team player. Probably the WORST clutch player to EVER play basketball!
This team has PLENTY of scoring options. JVB and Scotty are very capable to lighting it up from the outside. Jake could easily go off for 20+ any given game. Ejim and Godfrey do fine down low, not great mind you, but good enough. This team would be WAY better off with a game manager at the PG.

Hyperbole much? Give me a break. Are you sure you're watching Iowa State play and not some game you've made up in your mind?

[CRcyclone6]

To me this is no argument, though it has made for some entertaining reading over the last couple of days. Garrett is a better athlete and all-around player. With DG's skills, can you imagine what he could have done on a team like the ones Jacy played with. All Jacy had to do was get the ball over half court, pass it to Dedric, then make sure no one got behind him for a fast break. I appreciate Holloway for what he had to do and understanding his role. I remember when he committed to ISU, all these championships and points scored in his high school career. Then watching him play, ****, he couldn't beat out Jason Kimbrough. Others want to remember him as a better player because he made one big shot in his career, Big 8 title game vs KU. In the NCAA tourney, no way ISU loses to UCLA for the Final Four. Just my opinion, like eveyone elses.

[Tre4ISU]

My bad for not predicting this thread devolving into ripping on DG and Holloway...

Back to the original point, I just wanted to offer up the TO/Game comparison for those bagging on DG along with probable explanations for why his total turnover number is so high.

I saw the name of the thread and knew exactly what was inside.

Comparing Jacy to DG is comparing apples to oranges. They were two WAY different PGs.
Jacy was a game-manager and DG is a scorer. Jacy played great defense, got players into position and distributed the ball around to the playmakers and never turned it over. He was a team player and never needed to score.
DG tries to take the entire team on his back and carry them, whether that is needed or not. He makes TONS of mistakes. He turns the ball over. He takes terrible shots at inopportune times. He NEVER gets his teammates involved in the game. He plays TERRIBLE defense. He loses almost every game that is close at the end due to STUPID plays. He is an all around HORRIBLE team player. Probably the WORST clutch player to EVER play basketball!
This team has PLENTY of scoring options. JVB and Scotty are very capable to lighting it up from the outside. Jake could easily go off for 20+ any given game. Ejim and Godfrey do fine down low, not great mind you, but good enough. This team would be WAY better off with a game manager at the PG.

How do you get through each day?

[Clones85']

This team would be WAY better off with a game manager at the PG.

Take DG off this team and replace with Holloway and we lose to

Baylor
Virginia
Creighton
Iowa
Northern Ill

We would be 9-15 and would have no chance at winning a game in conference

[ajk4st8]

I love the fact that threads like this make our fans seem like such idiots.

[balken]

How about a change of pace. Better man off the bench, Jeff Bergstrom in 04-05 or Clint Varley in 01-02. Clearly, Varley had more minutes and put up 14 points to Bergstrom's 2 for the season, but it is difficult to look past the intangibles that Bergstrom brought to the 04-05 team. Below are their season stat lines for review.

Discuss, but keep it civil.

Jeff Bergstrom51.60.40.80.00.20.00.2.500.000.000
Clint Varley144.61.11.50.20.10.30.3.429.429.000