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**Clones85'** · 03-03-2011, 04:11 PM

It will be really interesting to see stats of shooters % with great PG's as opposed to with average PG's. Just from a quick look of Tyson Chandler

W/O great PG 52%
W/ Kidd and CP3 63%

JVB and Scotty have benefited from DG

**cycloneSOULja** · 03-03-2011, 04:12 PM

Originally Posted by Clones85'

I won't argue that DG is better than Pullen. It depends on the team and what the team needs. Pullen is more of a purer scoring PG and DG is more of a drive and dish PG.

What I will argue is that assists don't show ability. That's simply not true

If they do not show ability, then I would like to hear your thoughts on the Top 5 guys in the NCAA in assists. Other than the Michigan guy, I bet you have never heard of them... I haven't.

**IcSyU** · 03-03-2011, 04:12 PM

Originally Posted by cycloneSOULja

Come on man. That's a factor, but pretty small don't you think? You think he gets to the line double the times because of fouls in late situations? They only started tearing it up the last couple of weeks.

I dunno. Is it small? I'm not about to research. I am however saying that difference is probably less of a big deal than you make it.

**IcSyU** · 03-03-2011, 04:14 PM

Originally Posted by cycloneSOULja

If they do not show ability, then I would like to hear your thoughts on the Top 5 guys in the NCAA in assists. Other than the Michigan guy, I bet you have never heard of them... I haven't.

How many of the top scorers not named Jimmer have you heard of?

**Clones85'** · 03-03-2011, 04:15 PM

Originally Posted by cycloneSOULja

If they do not show ability, then I would like to hear your thoughts on the Top 5 guys in the NCAA in assists. Other than the Michigan guy, I bet you have never heard of them... I haven't.

Apples and oranges. This is college basketball where there are 350+ teams and tons of conferences. Not all teams are created equal and not all stats are created equal. It's better to compare stats by conference or BCS level conferences.

The guy from Iona plays talent similiar to his. Same with the Ohio guy. It would be like saying that PG from Simpson college averages 10 assists so he is better than DG. Not the same

**Tre4ISU** · 03-03-2011, 04:15 PM

Originally Posted by cycloneSOULja

I agree a good point guard makes their team better. That is a different debate altogether. I think a good point guard ought to be evaluated on more than pure assist totals.

Somebody on here claimed that DG is a better player than Pullen because DG gets more assists. I think you are smart enough to know that is not the case.

No one claimed that. You asked for a stat. They showed you a few and then you said they were worthless.

Originally Posted by snowcraig2.0

DG played Pullen even head to head.

Pullen deserves first team.

DG is a better pro prospect.

Steve Nash is unquestionably better than Tony Parker.

Yeah, I agree. There is no one who would claim Parker is better than Nash except Crank Dat.

**cycloneSOULja** · 03-03-2011, 04:16 PM

Originally Posted by Clones85'

It will be really interesting to see stats of shooters % with great PG's as opposed to with average PG's. Just from a quick look of Tyson Chandler

W/O great PG 52%
W/ Kidd and CP3 63%

JVB and Scotty have benefited from DG

Here's something I want to know: How come Nash, Kidd, and CP3 have 0 rings? And how can a team like the Lakers win so many championships with having a mediocre PG in Derek Fisher?

Good point guards create opportunties for their players, but it doesn't necessarily result in winning though, does it?

**cycloneSOULja** · 03-03-2011, 04:19 PM

Originally Posted by IcSyU

How many of the top scorers not named Jimmer have you heard of?

Similar to assists, scoring (when taken out of context) isn't a helpful stat.

All I'm saying is a guy that has 3-4 assists a game can very much be better than a guy that has 6 assist/game, and a guy with more assists doesn't necessarily mean they are better.

Same with scoring. A guy who averages 15/game can be a better player than a guy averaging 20 points/game

**Yes13** · 03-03-2011, 04:22 PM

Originally Posted by cycloneSOULja

Here's something I want to know: How come Nash, Kidd, and CP3 have 0 rings? And how can a team like the Lakers win so many championships with having a mediocre PG in Derek Fisher?

Good point guards create opportunties for their players, but it doesn't necessarily result in winning though, does it?

The triangle offense doesn't need a pg.

Rajon Rondo has a couple rings. No you don't need an elite pg to win. It does help though. The suns would be terrible without Nash. Boston wouldn't be as good without Rondo

**IcSyU** · 03-03-2011, 04:22 PM

Originally Posted by cycloneSOULja

Here's something I want to know: How come Nash, Kidd, and CP3 have 0 rings? And how can a team like the Lakers win so many championships with having a mediocre PG in Derek Fisher?

Good point guards create opportunties for their players, but it doesn't necessarily result in winning though, does it?

Signed,

Rajon Rondo

**Yes13** · 03-03-2011, 04:23 PM

Originally Posted by cycloneSOULja

Similar to assists, scoring (when taken out of context) isn't a helpful stat.

All I'm saying is a guy that has 3-4 assists a game can very much be better than a guy that has 6 assist/game, and a guy with more assists doesn't necessarily mean they are better.

Same with scoring. A guy who averages 15/game can be a better player than a guy averaging 20 points/game

Why did you ask for stats then? You just explained how they mean nothing.

**IcSyU** · 03-03-2011, 04:23 PM

Originally Posted by Yes13

The triangle offense doesn't need a pg.

Rajon Rondo has a couple rings. No you don't need an elite pg to win. It does help though. The suns would be terrible without Nash. Boston wouldn't be as good without Rondo

Doesn't Rondo have 1? (2008)

**IcSyU** · 03-03-2011, 04:24 PM

Originally Posted by cycloneSOULja

Similar to assists, scoring (when taken out of context) isn't a helpful stat.

All I'm saying is a guy that has 3-4 assists a game can very much be better than a guy that has 6 assist/game, and a guy with more assists doesn't necessarily mean they are better.

Same with scoring. A guy who averages 15/game can be a better player than a guy averaging 20 points/game

So why were you asking for stats if you're backtracking on it now?

edit: Yes13...good call

**ISUCyclone06** · 03-03-2011, 04:25 PM

Originally Posted by cycloneSOULja

Here's something I want to know: How come Nash, Kidd, and CP3 have 0 rings? And how can a team like the Lakers win so many championships with having a mediocre PG in Derek Fisher?

Good point guards create opportunties for their players, but it doesn't necessarily result in winning though, does it?

Thats easy...Kobe Bryant....Phil Jackson. No one factor in basketball decides the outcomes of champions. Hell Champions aren't always the best team that year, replay the championship game 5 to 10 times or in the NBA replay the 7 game series multiple times or throw in other good teams and any given team can win.

I think basketball is a true team sport, you can have a great point guard or a great center, or the best player (Lebron) and still not win championships.

**Clones85'** · 03-03-2011, 04:26 PM

Originally Posted by cycloneSOULja

Here's something I want to know: How come Nash, Kidd, and CP3 have 0 rings? And how can a team like the Lakers win so many championships with having a mediocre PG in Derek Fisher?

Good point guards create opportunties for their players, but it doesn't necessarily result in winning though, does it?

Because the Lakers have Kobe Bryant who is the best player in the league the last decade and 3 guys that are damn near 7 feet tall

I'm not saying you have to have a great PG to win, you don't. I'm just saying the assist stat shows a players ability. Next your going to tell me that Kevin Love isn't any good b/c he plays on a crabby team and rebounding is ovverrated