Worst Screw Job I.S.U. Ever Got?

**jdoggivjc** · 03-29-2011, 11:27 AM

Originally Posted by ozone

Arizona did not. Loren Woods was injured and Arizona told the NCAA selection committee he was okay. ISU would have had a #1 seed if they would have known how bad his injury was.

Do you know that with 100% certainty? Or are you just pulling **** out of your arse? Arizona was still the conference champion in a conference that likely had a higher RPI than the Big 12. And Arizona's situation wasn't the same as Cincinnati's - Cincinnati (at the time) was playing in the CUSA, and the committee and media would gladly jump on any reason to pull the #1 seed away from a team that belonged to a non-power conference, and Kenyon Martin breaking his leg was the perfect opportunity. Arizona, on the other hand, won the conference championship in an extremely high RPI conference. You sure Arizona still wouldn't have been given that #1 seed? Or that it wouldn't have gone to Temple, St. John's, or Cincinnati?

And by the way, before you flip-flop your answer to Stanford, they shared the PAC 10 title with Arizona that year, and that was pre PAC 10 Tournament era.

**Freebird** · 03-29-2011, 11:37 AM

Originally Posted by jdoggivjc

So tell me which #1 didn't deserve their seed:

Michigan St
Duke
Arizona
Stanford

And keep in mind that Cincinnati was slotted for a #1 seed until Kenyon Martin broke his leg and Cinci flamed out of the CUSA Tournament as a result.

And don't even start with "well, none of the other #1 seeds even made it past the Sweet Sixteen so they obviously don't deserve their #1 seed", especially if you're part of the group that is of the opinion that VCU still didn't deserve to be in the NCAA Tournament despite the fact they have played their way into the Final Four (and I happen to belong to this group). Performance in the tournament is not necessarily indicative that a team didn't deserve the seed it was given. Perhaps if ISU is given one of those #1 seeds ISU gets knocked out of the tournament early.

I stand by my statement that ISU ARGUABLY deserved a #1 seed, not "most definitely".

Take our jerseys from that year, dye them blue and slap "Kansas" across the front and we are a #1 seed over one of the PAC-10 schools. Has there ever been a year in which Kansas has won both the conference and the conference tournament and NOT been a #1 seed? We were #2 because we are Iowa State. It was a total screw job.

**jdoggivjc** · 03-29-2011, 11:44 AM

Originally Posted by Freebird

Take our jerseys from that year, dye them blue and slap "Kansas" across the front and we are a #1 seed over one of the PAC-10 schools. Has there ever been a year in which Kansas has won both the conference and the conference tournament and NOT been a #1 seed? We were #2 because we are Iowa State. It was a total screw job.

And I call bull**** - the only time we were ever mentioned as a potential #1 seed that entire season was in passing.

**CYdTracked** · 03-29-2011, 11:45 AM

How much do you want to bet had the KU FT screw job happened at Hilton and not at KU those points would have come off the board? I would bet there would be all kinds of things thrown on the court and a delay in the game had the officials left those points on the board at Hilton. I don't think the same would have happened at KU since KU fans had to know that 3 pointer that didn't come off the board was a gift from the officials and shouldn't have stood. They may have booed some but I don't see them causing mass chaos like it would have in Ames.

Those officials were definitely incompetent, how do you 3 guys lose count of the FT situation then not blow the play dead when the ISU players are standing there wondering what is going on while KU gets a wide open 3.

**ozone** · 03-29-2011, 11:49 AM

Originally Posted by jdoggivjc

Do you know that with 100% certainty?

I was told by a source in the NCAA. Woods had missed the last 8 games of the season and Arizona had assured the committee that he would be able to play in the tournament. ISU would have had the #1 seed otherwise.

I choose to believe my source. You can believe whatever you choose.

**ruxCYtable** · 03-29-2011, 11:57 AM

Originally Posted by Cyforce

1-The play should have been erased
2-if you let it stand, why don't you pull the players off the line for the second FT then award us the ball?

Royal official **** up and, as tends to happen with these situations, ISU was the team that ended up getting screwed. No ifs, ands or buts. So before you shoot the messenger I am simply telling you the RULE, I am in no way saying it wasn't a royal screw job.

ISU was erroneously awarded a 1-1 instead of a two shot FT. Kansas rebounds the miss, goes down and scores. The officials realize the error and award ISU the 2nd FT. This is a "correctable error" situation called "failure to award a merited free throw."

Unfortunately, when an error is recognized, any scoring that has occurred in the meantime BY RULE CANNOT BE CANCELED. Therefore, the three pointer by KU had to stand.

The reason the players were not removed from the FT line and ISU awarded the ball was again BY RULE, you resume the game from the point at which the error occurred. In this case, with ISU shooting the 2nd of two free throws as if nothing else ever happened.

Common sense would say cancel the score, give ISU second free throw and move on from there. But that is not what the rule book says.

So, the refs royally ****ed up and ISU got screwed. No question. But unfortunately they did handle the correctable error correctly as per the rules. So to the person who said there is nothing in the rules that allows this: There is, and it's called a "correctable error."

**Yellow Snow** · 03-29-2011, 12:03 PM

Originally Posted by jdoggivjc

And I call bull**** - the only time we were ever mentioned as a potential #1 seed that entire season was in passing.

This...

The reason we were a #2 seed was our late season loss at Colorado.

In that game we held a 3 point lead with seconds left, but Jaquay (sp?) Walls hit a running 40 foot throw in at the buzzer to sent it to OT. We subsequently lost that game. Had the loss occurred earlier in the year it wouldn't have made as much of a difference, but the timing was horrible. THAT is why we were a 2 seed.

**jdoggivjc** · 03-29-2011, 12:14 PM

Originally Posted by ozone

I was told by a source in the NCAA. Woods had missed the last 8 games of the season and Arizona had assured the committee that he would be able to play in the tournament. ISU would have had the #1 seed otherwise.

I choose to believe my source. You can believe whatever you choose.

Hooray for "My best friend's sister's boyfriend's brother's girlfriend heard from this guy who knows this kid who's going with the girl who was told that ISU would have been the #1 seed if Arizona hadn't flat out lied through their teeth" sources...

**The_Architect** · 03-29-2011, 12:28 PM

Originally Posted by Yellow Snow

This...

The reason we were a #2 seed was our late season loss at Colorado.

In that game we held a 3 point lead with seconds left, but Jaquay (sp?) Walls hit a running 40 foot throw in at the buzzer to sent it to OT. We subsequently lost that game. Had the loss occurred earlier in the year it wouldn't have made as much of a difference, but the timing was horrible. THAT is why we were a 2 seed.

Well, there's that and of course the absolutely inexcusable loss at Drake were we scored about 40 points.

**Al_4_State** · 03-29-2011, 12:32 PM

Originally Posted by ruxCYtable

Royal official **** up and, as tends to happen with these situations, ISU was the team that ended up getting screwed. No ifs, ands or buts. So before you shoot the messenger I am simply telling you the RULE, I am in no way saying it wasn't a royal screw job.

ISU was erroneously awarded a 1-1 instead of a two shot FT. Kansas rebounds the miss, goes down and scores. The officials realize the error and award ISU the 2nd FT. This is a "correctable error" situation called "failure to award a merited free throw."

Unfortunately, when an error is recognized, any scoring that has occurred in the meantime BY RULE CANNOT BE CANCELED. Therefore, the three pointer by KU had to stand.

The reason the players were not removed from the FT line and ISU awarded the ball was again BY RULE, you resume the game from the point at which the error occurred. In this case, with ISU shooting the 2nd of two free throws as if nothing else ever happened.

Common sense would say cancel the score, give ISU second free throw and move on from there. But that is not what the rule book says.

So, the refs royally ****ed up and ISU got screwed. No question. But unfortunately they did handle the correctable error correctly as per the rules. So to the person who said there is nothing in the rules that allows this: There is, and it's called a "correctable error."

How can they review whether or not a shot was a 2 or 3 pointer a few plays later?

According to this explanation, there is NO difference.

**jdoggivjc** · 03-29-2011, 12:40 PM

Originally Posted by The_Architect

Well, there's that and of course the absolutely inexcusable loss at Drake were we scored about 40 points.

Not to mention this ISU team didn't crack the top 25 in rankings until February, didn't crack the top 10 until the last week of the season, and never cracked the top 5 until the final poll of the season. Not to mention, if my memory serves me correctly, the media picked us to finish dead last in conference that season (I know some people dispute me on this, but I swear I read that going into the season - unfortunately I cannot prove it).

I know that polling is hardly the end-all-be-all to tournament seedings, but it gives you a general impression of what people think of your team. The fact that our highest rating that season was #6, and that was going into the NCAA Tournament, would lead most nonbiased people to come to the conclusion that ISU wasn't going to get a #1 seed that year.

**ruxCYtable** · 03-29-2011, 12:42 PM

Originally Posted by Al_4_State

How can they review whether or not a shot was a 2 or 3 pointer a few plays later?

According to this explanation, there is NO difference.

There is a difference. Whether or not a made shot was a two or a three is not a "correctable error" as defined by the rules. This would be a scoring error, which can be corrected at any time during the game.

A "correctable error" (there are five) must be recognized prior to or during the next dead ball.

**ozone** · 03-29-2011, 01:05 PM

Originally Posted by jdoggivjc

Hooray for "My best friend's sister's boyfriend's brother's girlfriend heard from this guy who knows this kid who's going with the girl who was told that ISU would have been the #1 seed if Arizona hadn't flat out lied through their teeth" sources...

You are funny, but way off base.

**ozone** · 03-29-2011, 01:19 PM

Originally Posted by jdoggivjc

I know that polling is hardly the end-all-be-all to tournament seedings, but it gives you a general impression of what people think of your team. The fact that our highest rating that season was #6, and that was going into the NCAA Tournament, would lead most nonbiased people to come to the conclusion that ISU wasn't going to get a #1 seed that year.

Going into the tournament selection, ISU was 3rd in the ESPN/USA Today poll and 6th in the AP poll. They won the B12 conference and B12 conference tournament. They had a 29-4 record. They certainly had the credentials to be considered a candidate for a #1 seed.

**cayin** · 03-29-2011, 01:32 PM

Regarding the dead ball 3 pointer at KU, I felt Morgan should have raised more h#ll then he did. He was ****** and remember the camera on the court level caught him telling the ref that it was bullsh#t. But that was about it. He should have stood on the court and not moved until they gave him an explanation on how it is possible to put points on the board during a dead ball situation. There is no way that call should have stood. LE, Floyd or Orr would have gotten tossed out before allowing something like that. And then later that game the 2 pointer counted as a 3? That game was a major screw job.