What does Chris Babb bring to the table?

[CylentButDeadly]

Seriously, lighten up on Ejim. The kid was a true freshman this year. Playing the 4 position and going up against guys 3 inches taller and 25 lbs heavier than him. And he still averaged more pts and rebs than Babb did as a soph at Penn State. But of course Babb is still MUCH better according to you? Whatever.

So most of Ejim's baskets were so-called "garbage" baskets, huh? Isn't a basket a basket? Maybe Ejim has a nose for knowing where the ball is going to come off the rim to get those putbacks? Maybe Ejim goes in and follows these shots as they go up instead of running back down the court and being lazy? Since when is getting putbacks a bad thing? Everyone has their roles.

And then you comment that Ejim has areas of his game that need improvement? Oh really? Name someone on the team that doesn't? Plus he's only a soph this season. You didn't expect him to not have areas of his game that need improvement going into his second year did you? No, he's not quite Michael Jordan yet... sorry to dissapoint you.

Oh, I don't know. Because he's expecting a freshman to play like a seasoned veteran in his first taste of major college basketball? If we had been a tournament team, everyone would have been raving about Ejim after he averaged 10 and 7 as a frosh. did anyone notice how his 3-point and overall shooting percentages plummeted as the season wore on? That comes from getting beat up night after night playing out of position as a freshmen in Big XII basketball.

This cracks me up. Really, you think I was insinuating that? Come on dude.

[IcSyU]

But you haven't shown me why he was wrong. Did he struggle shooting? BIG time. Did he struggle putting the ball on the floor? Undoubtedly. He shot 40% in conference and the majority of those were put backs, so that was accurate. 6 boards per game in conference play makes him a decent rebounder.

So again, where was the inaccuracy? It was all facts.

[CylentButDeadly]

But you haven't shown me why he was wrong. Did he struggle shooting? BIG time. Did he struggle putting the ball on the floor? Undoubtedly. He shot 40% in conference and the majority of those were put backs, so that was accurate. 6 boards per game in conference play makes him a decent rebounder.

So again, where was the inaccuracy? It was all facts.

Apparently saying someone needs to improve in certain areas is a major slight and completely uncalled for on this board.

[CylentButDeadly]

And another thing, I fully stick by what I said in regards to Babb and Ejim. Babb has a much more refined offensive game at this point. He's a good shooter and he can tote the rock. Other than size, he and Ejim are completely different players. At this point, Ejim relies on his athleticism and hustle to make plays, while Babb relies on a little more refined offensive skill. That's not a slight to either guy. It's an observation, and I think most would agree it's pretty accurate.

[clonedude]

And another thing, I fully stick by what I said in regards to Babb and Ejim. Babb has a much more refined offensive game at this point. He's a good shooter and he can tote the rock. Other than size, he and Ejim are completely different players. At this point, Ejim relies on his athleticism and hustle to make plays, while Babb relies on a little more refined offensive skill. That's not a slight to either guy. It's an observation, and I think most would agree it's pretty accurate.

Ohhh.... Babb has a much more refined offensive game, huh? Hmmm, interesting that a lot of writeups on him describe him as purely just a spot up outside shooter. On his videos I don't see him being able to create his own shot, or take it to the hoop either. So maybe you could say Babb's offensive game needs some work as well?

And why should I "chill out"? I wasn't the one on here putting down Ejim's game. He had a great freshman season IMO. Maybe he'll never be a guy that can shoot the outside shot real well? But I think we'll have plenty of guys that will fit that role. We need a guy that seems to always be in the right place at the right time to get the putbacks, or rip down a crucial offensive rebound.

I don't think his offensive game is bad at all though. I guess I wasn't watching the same Melvin Ejim as you were this season?

[Bipolarcy]

This cracks me up. Really, you think I was insinuating that? Come on dude.

Apparently, you were, seeing as you you didn't find much to like about Ejim's game. He needs work handling the ball, he needs work shooting, he needs work defending. That's pretty much the fundamentals of basketball right there.

By the same token, you could say the same thing about just about every player on the team, but you singled out Ejim, a freshman.

[clonedude]

Yeah... this is a guy we definately don't need on our team.....

[ame=http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=K7PP9I0ZoYs]YouTube - Iowa State Dunks Over Kennesaw State[/ame]

[CyclonePassion]

I guarded him one night at the Rec. I had a hand in his face and he was still draining it a step inside the half court line. That's what he brings.

[CylentButDeadly]

Ohhh.... Babb has a much more refined offensive game, huh? Hmmm, interesting that a lot of writeups on him describe him as purely just a spot up outside shooter. On his videos I don't see him being able to create his own shot, or take it to the hoop either. So maybe you could say Babb's offensive game needs some work as well?

And why should I "chill out"? I wasn't the one on here putting down Ejim's game. He had a great freshman season IMO. Maybe he'll never be a guy that can shoot the outside shot real well? But I think we'll have plenty of guys that will fit that role. We need a guy that seems to always be in the right place at the right time to get the putbacks, or rip down a crucial offensive rebound.

I don't think his offensive game is bad at all though. I guess I wasn't watching the same Melvin Ejim as you were this season?

Apparently, you were, seeing as you you didn't find much to like about Ejim's game. He needs work handling the ball, he needs work shooting, he needs work defending. That's pretty much the fundamentals of basketball right there.

By the same token, you could say the same thing about just about every player on the team, but you singled out Ejim, a freshman.

Yeah... this is a guy we definately don't need on our team.....

YouTube - Iowa State Dunks Over Kennesaw State

Could you two be anymore dense? Seriously, you both are way off the reservation. Ejim is very good basketball player and has the potential to be an all-conference type guy, but if he's going to realize that potential, his shooting and ball handling are two things that have to improve. There is nothing wrong with saying that and Ejim is an extremely valuable member of the program and I look forward to his next three years in the program as much as anyone. He had a good freshman season and if he works hard, he has a chance to have a great Cyclone career. That is all I'm saying, so please, take that for what you will (which appears to be the complete opposite of what I'm saying), and realize that we both want the same thing from Ejim as a Cyclone.

[CylentButDeadly]

And just to show you two I'm being fair, here's some other things that guys on the team could work on this off season to improve our team success:

-Railey: Play more in control and work to stay on the floor by avoiding foul trouble.
-Booker: Based on his play from Southern Illinois, become more assertive and physical inside. Actively go after rebounds instead of waiting for them to come to him.
-Babb: Don't rely on the outside shot as much. Needs to be better at using his entire offensive repetoire.
-Allen: Go from being a number 2-3 three option to being a number 1 option guy.
-Christopherson: Continue to develop as a ball handler and the pump-fake dribble drive to finish inside the 3pt line.
-White: Never seen him play, so can't comment.
-Bubu: Continue to get stronger and improve his ball handling, decision making and outside shot.
-Ejim: Already covered.
-Sledge & McGee: Only seen highlight videos, so can't comment on their play.

Does that satisfy you and show that I'm not just singling Ejim out?

[Bipolarcy]

Bipolarcy & clonedude, you both missed the boat completely on what I was trying to say. Ejim was very good at coming up with loose balls and made some great hustle plays. His offensive rebounding kept us in a lot of close games and he thrived off of floating around the basket and positioning himself for those dump offs from DG & Anderson. In those aspects, Ejim did a lot of good things. What I'm trying to say, and this is not news to anyone, Ejim has a lot of work to do to refine his offensive game. He wasn't much a shooter from outside and still needs to work on his offensive creativity when we run isos and designed plays for him. What is so bad about saying that? Most freshman do need that type of work.

Please point out where I said I expected him to be Harrison Barnes right off the bat. You'll never find it because I never said that. All I'm saying is Ejim did some things well, but he has a lot to work on. If saying that is wrong, then hang me up. You both are deriving a lot from my posts that I never said. I think you both need to chill out.

Dense? You came down pretty hard on Ejim, maybe harder than you intended. Just because some Cyclone fans defended him, doesn't mean we're dense. the tone of your post definitely alerted the radar, especially the way it began. You started it off with "where to begin?" That sounds like there are sooooo many things wrong with his game, you're having a tough time deciding which bad trait is worse. On a freshman. I'd like to have a dozen freshman as bad as him.

[ricochet]

I think the problem isn't so much what you said, but how you said it.

Ejim has no touch from the outside and had trouble putting it on the deck and taking it to the rack. Furthermore, during the conference season, Ejim proved to be little more than a garbage/hustle bucket guy and a decent rebounder.

If you had said:

"Ejim could improve his touch from the outside and putting it on the deck and taking it to the rack. During the conference season, Ejim was a good garbage/hustle bucket guy and a decent rebounder."

I think people would have agreed. Phrases like "little more than" convey a pretty negative opinion on something.

[CylentButDeadly]

Dense? You came down pretty hard on Ejim, maybe harder than you intended. Just because some Cyclone fans defended him, doesn't mean we're dense. the tone of your post definitely alerted the radar, especially the way it began. You started it off with "where to begin?" That sounds like there are sooooo many things wrong with his game, you're having a tough time deciding which bad trait is worse. On a freshman. I'd like to have a dozen freshman as bad as him.

The dense comment was in regard to you guys asserting that I thought Ejim basically sucked. I don't think that. I can see how my original post came down hard on him, and I probably should have included a qualifier in there saying that I still thought he had a lot of potential.

My initial argument though, I still think holds true. If Ejim is going to take the next step, he has to improve his ball handling and his offensive acumen. I fully believe he has the potential to do so, but based off of what we saw last year, he's got some work to do in those areas. Now, I never want Ejim to be a guy that jacks up outside shots all game, because that would take away from so many other things he's good at, like coming up with loose balls and his tenacity on the offensive glass, but if he's going to be a more diversified scorer, he's going to need to put some work in, which most freshman have to, so that's not slighting Ejim in any way.

[CylentButDeadly]

I think the problem isn't so much what you said, but how you said it.



If you had said:

"Ejim could improve his touch from the outside and putting it on the deck and taking it to the rack. During the conference season, Ejim was a good garbage/hustle bucket guy and a decent rebounder."

I think people would have agreed. Phrases like "little more than" convey a pretty negative opinion on something.

This is probably right, but I still think what I said holds true. Yes I could have phrased it differently, but I think we're splitting some hairs here and delving into another topic altogether; why must we wear the proverbial "kiddie gloves" when talking about improvement as it relates to ISU athletes?

[Cyforce]

While that is undoubtedly true, you also have to think there would be times when Babb needs to be a true 4, like on defense. Unfortunately, you can't play only offense. I imagine there are also other ways they are looking at using his quickness against larger, slower 4s. At 6-6, 220, he's more than capable of playing the 4.

This reminds me of the debate when Royce White first stepped on campus and even before. Is he a 2, a 3, or a 4? Most people wrongly assumed he was a 3, maybe spelling at 2 every once in a while. That was the main question, but I also saw people wondering if he could play the point. The 4, his most likely position, was rarely mentioned.

The argument isn't the same with Babb because he's definitely a 2 or 3 but when Hoiberg says he could play the 4, I have to believe he means he could play the 4 and ALL that entails, not just sitting on the perimeter looking for 3-pointers. Ejim played the 4 last year and lurking on the perimeter is not all he did, although he certainly did some of that on certain possessions.

Yes, he would have to defend a bigger player that would most likely try to take him down low. I was responding to a post about Babb having low post skills. I don't think he has the quicks to play the 2 in Fred's system. I see him and Scottie fighting for the same minutes. Ejim will be in at the three when we are looking to match up with a bigger front line. While Ejim and Babb are about the same size Ejim likes to bang and is a solid rebounder.

Babb will play the 4 to cause a mismatch, when Fred said this he had plenty of posts that could handle the 4 in a conventional way.