No PG

**Clones85'** · 11-08-2011, 11:18 AM

Originally Posted by ISUChippewa

I don't think he's the 2nd best PG we've had in the past 25 years, but I will defend him when for some reason people slam an integral player who was part of some of the better ISU teams we've ever had.

I don't slam on Jacy unless people slam on guys like DG for not winning. It's a team sport. Your only as good as your teammates. DG never had the opportunity to win b/c he wasn't surrounded by Kelvin Cato's and Dedric Willoughby's.

**ISUChippewa** · 11-08-2011, 11:26 AM

Originally Posted by Clones85'

I don't slam on Jacy unless people slam on guys like DG for not winning. It's a team sport. Your only as good as your teammates. DG never had the opportunity to win b/c he wasn't surrounded by Kelvin Cato's and Dedric Willoughby's.

Agreed, and I see where you're coming from when you write this. I would also add that DG was held back his first three seasons by a very stubborn coach who was in over his head and didn't maximize his talent effectively. Contrast with Jacy playing under an excellent coach who used him effectively.

**Clones85'** · 11-08-2011, 11:33 AM

Originally Posted by ISUChippewa

Agreed, and I see where you're coming from when you write this. I would also add that DG was held back his first three seasons by a very stubborn coach who was in over his head and didn't maximize his talent effectively. Contrast with Jacy playing under an excellent coach who used him effectively.

Bingo. It's amazing what coaching and surrounding talent can do for a guy. The first 3 years of DG's career his negatives where shown in his game. Hoiberg saw what he did well and let him do that and all of a sudden DG was successful. Did DG magically become a better ball player under Fred? I don't think so. I just think he was put in spots to be successful. Now imagine him with this surrounding talent!

**rholtgraves** · 11-08-2011, 11:33 AM

Originally Posted by acgclone

LOL!!!!

So you're saying that Scotty > Allen > McGee > Tavon > Jacy > Peterson

I really have seen it all.

Do you really think that we have 4 players on the roster that are better PG's than Jacy or Peterson?

Now you're looking foolish.

Jacy was a very good pass first PG, but as far as overall talent, I think that Scotty, Allen, McGee and Sledge are all more talented.

As for Petersen, I would say that all are better PG's. Petersen should have never been a starter on a big 12 team.

**cysocool** · 11-08-2011, 11:48 AM

Originally Posted by ISUChippewa

And yet, despite his limitations, we held our own against those teams in that era, went to 3 NCAA tournaments (including a Sweet 16 and were thisclose to an Elite 8), and won the very last Big 8 tournament. Again, we can disagree without being disagreeable and it sounds like we will have to agree to disagree, but I don't know why you're picking on Holloway so much in this thread.

I loved Jacy just like the rest of you...

Really?

ISUChippewa, I'm not picking on Jacy, i'm just using him as a reference for our current guards and how we can be successful. I believe we have two or three guards that can play the point better then he did. I didn't say any of our current guards are great but as a group, I believe they can do some damage.

You make some great points about the success of those tim floyd teams and Jacy played a important role. Just think how great those teams would have been if Tinsley or Blalock played the point.

**acgclone** · 11-08-2011, 12:04 PM

Originally Posted by rholtgraves

Jacy was a very good pass first PG, but as far as overall talent, I think that Scotty, Allen, McGee and Sledge are all more talented.

As for Petersen, I would say that all are better PG's. Petersen should have never been a starter on a big 12 team.

They may be better athletes, but these guys are not true PG's except for Sledge and I maintain that if he was as good as people think (based only on some HS highlight videos), you wouldn't be seeing our best 3 pt shooter in school history playing PG right now.

**Doc** · 11-08-2011, 05:35 PM

Originally Posted by Clone5

Besides playing defense, rebounding, shooting 3's, and passing.

I hate to bash the guy because he was the best we had and he played hard and smart, but the only one of those I'd say he was above average at for a guard would be rebounding...and that's the least important of the four.

People say it was McDermott's fault for DG not playing that well, but I think that's only part of the reason. Part of the reason that DG played well last year was that he finally had another guard in Jake who create his own shot.