The charge calls

**andymhallman** · 12-16-2012, 08:44 PM

I don't have a huge problem with the way charges are called at the NCAA level. I don't like the no-charge-for-secondary-defenders semi-circle under the basket since it forces the referees to pay too much attention to a player's feet and not at where the contact occurs on the body and who was moving into whom.

The call that bugs me is the jump ball. I see a lot of jump balls called when there was not dual possession. A lot of times this happens when a defensive player blocks a shot with one hand and the offensive player comes down with the ball. The defender never really gets possession, so it should either be no call or traveling on the offensive player.

**ruxCYtable** · 12-17-2012, 09:11 AM

Originally Posted by andymhallman

I don't have a huge problem with the way charges are called at the NCAA level. I don't like the no-charge-for-secondary-defenders semi-circle under the basket since it forces the referees to pay too much attention to a player's feet and not at where the contact occurs on the body and who was moving into whom.

The call that bugs me is the jump ball. I see a lot of jump balls called when there was not dual possession. A lot of times this happens when a defensive player blocks a shot with one hand and the offensive player comes down with the ball. The defender never really gets possession, so it should either be no call or traveling on the offensive player.

Agree on the semi-circle. I think it overly-complicates what should be a simple situation.

On the held ball, this is not a judgment call that officials are making, that is what the rule is. If the defender gets a hand on the ball and prevents the release, it is a held ball by rule. So what you are suggesting would require a rule change.

While we're on the subject of rule changes, I find the whole concept of alternating possession to be kind of silly. I think we should go back to the old way and have the two guys jump it up. The argument against this I've heard is it takes too much time. Well, instead of going to the center or the free throw line, do it right at the spot of the tie-up and IMMEDIATELY, like they do drops in soccer. Just a thought while we're on the subject of rules changes.

**VeloClone** · 12-17-2012, 09:38 AM

Originally Posted by ruxCYtable

While we're on the subject of rule changes, I find the whole concept of alternating possession to be kind of silly. I think we should go back to the old way and have the two guys jump it up. The argument against this I've heard is it takes too much time. Well, instead of going to the center or the free throw line, do it right at the spot of the tie-up and IMMEDIATELY, like they do drops in soccer. Just a thought while we're on the subject of rules changes.

I like rewarding smaller guys for tying up taller players. A 5'10" guard who ties up a 7 footer should have a chance at the ball. I like rules that slow down the trend of basketball being a game solely about having exclusively taller players. The alternate possession rule and the three point line are two things that slowed this inevitable progression.

**CY88CE11** · 12-17-2012, 09:41 AM

Originally Posted by ISUCubswin

Also, did anyone else see the Drake fan on TV calling for an intentional foul on McGee when he tried getting a charge call near the end of the game? Hilarious.

Was this the guy in the front row, opposite the benches? I was watching him all afternoon. What a maroon.

**wonkadog** · 12-17-2012, 09:49 AM

I saw the idiot on t.v. Right before that he was screaming for an over-the-back call.

**ISUAlum2002** · 12-17-2012, 09:55 AM

Originally Posted by wonkadog

I saw the idiot on t.v. Right before that he was screaming for an over-the-back call.

That confirms it. He obviously knows nothing about basketball.

**Freebird** · 12-17-2012, 10:38 AM

Originally Posted by ISUCubswin

Also, did anyone else see the Drake fan on TV calling for an intentional foul on McGee when he tried getting a charge call near the end of the game? Hilarious.

Funny that others also caught it. It was on for just a split second but I remember thinking that he must be the absolute dumbest bb fan in the building.

**ruxCYtable** · 12-17-2012, 10:42 AM

Originally Posted by Freebird

Funny that others also caught it. It was on for just a split second but I remember thinking that he must be the absolute dumbest bb fan in the building.

Can someone post it on youtube for those of us who don't have mediacom? I gotta get a load of this guy.

**Cycsk** · 12-17-2012, 10:49 AM

Yes, the refs took Gibson out of the game early. That was too bad because he was hot and it seemed like Hoiberg had given him a green light. However, we benefited overall from the over-aggressive calling of fouls. Ben Simons sat on the bench through most of the first half. And they had lots of their guys fouling out during the second half.

**Cycsk** · 12-17-2012, 10:51 AM

Originally Posted by CY88CE11

Was this the guy in the front row, opposite the benches? I was watching him all afternoon. What a maroon.

Actually, wasn't he wearing "blue?"

And was he the guy who went out on the court once to wipe up a spot?

He really thought he was a big shot and wanted everyone to know he was there.

**iahawkhunter** · 12-17-2012, 10:53 AM

Originally Posted by ISUAlum2002

That confirms it. He obviously knows nothing about basketball.

I see this sentiment a lot whenever someone mentions "over the back". I understand that it's not a true foul (should be a push IIRC), but has this always been the case? I ask because when I played as a kid (haven't played since ~2000 when I was in junior high) I remember seeing plenty of fouls called as over-the-back. Did the label get changed in the meantime, or were the refs I saw just not calling it correctly?

**ruxCYtable** · 12-17-2012, 10:58 AM

Originally Posted by iahawkhunter

I see this sentiment a lot whenever someone mentions "over the back". I understand that it's not a true foul (should be a push IIRC), but has this always been the case? I ask because when I played as a kid (haven't played since ~2000 when I was in junior high) I remember seeing plenty of fouls called as over-the-back. Did the label get changed in the meantime, or were the refs I saw just not calling it correctly?

It is strictly an issue of terminology. The term "over the back" has come to be interpreted by some that it is illegal for a player in outside position to get a rebound, even if he does so without causing contact. So I think the powers that be in basketball are simply making an effort to get rid of that term and replace it with "on the back" or "push in the back" or something similar, to reduce confusion.

Another term they are trying to get rid of is a foul being called "on the floor," because it is entirely possible to have a shooting foul for a player who is still on the ground. The key is if he has begun his, what they call "habitual shooting motion." They want officials to refrain from using the term "on the floor" and instead simply say "before the shot" or even simply "no shot."

**iahawkhunter** · 12-17-2012, 10:59 AM

Originally Posted by ruxCYtable

It is strictly an issue of terminology. The term "over the back" has come to be interpreted by some that it is illegal for a player in outside position to get a rebound, even if he does so without causing contact. So I think the powers that be in basketball are simply making an effort to get rid of that term and replace it with "on the back" or "push in the back" or something similar, to reduce confusion.

Another term they are trying to get rid of is a foul being called "on the floor," because it is entirely possible to have a shooting foul for a player who is still on the ground. The key is if he has begun his, what they call "habitual shooting motion." They want officials to refrain from using the term "on the floor" and instead simply say "before the shot" or even simply "no shot."

Thanks!

**CY88CE11** · 12-17-2012, 12:52 PM

Originally Posted by Cycsk

Actually, wasn't he wearing "blue?"

And was he the guy who went out on the court once to wipe up a spot?

He really thought he was a big shot and wanted everyone to know he was there.

Sorry, you're right...that fan BLUE chunks.

**GMackey32** · 12-17-2012, 12:57 PM

Originally Posted by Cycsk

Actually, wasn't he wearing "blue?"

And was he the guy who went out on the court once to wipe up a spot?

He really thought he was a big shot and wanted everyone to know he was there.

I watched this guy in the first game also. He put on a UNI shirt and was actively rooting for them against Iowa. During the intermission he changed to his Drake shirt. The guy I was with said he acts like that at the Knapp center too (Strategizing with the players, getting in the opposing players faces, going onto the court, trying to get the ref to call certain fouls, etc.). It seems like Drake has their own white version of Spike Lee.