That's Why You Foul

**ISUME** · 01-10-2013, 04:32 PM

Originally Posted by isuno1fan

See my post above. If we foul at midcourt like we would need to do to make sure he wasn't shooting, there would have been at least 5 seconds left on the clock. In that scenario they make both FTs instead of make one, miss one and try for the tip. We have the ball up by 1 needing to inbound it. All sorts of bad things could happen at this point. At best they foul us with 4 seconds or so still on the clock.

ISU still had a timeout, so they had 2 chances to find an open man.

**KSUcat** · 01-10-2013, 04:34 PM

Originally Posted by isuno1fan

See my post above. If we foul at midcourt like we would need to do to make sure he wasn't shooting, there would have been at least 5 seconds left on the clock. In that scenario they make both FTs instead of make one, miss one and try for the tip. We have the ball up by 1 needing to inbound it. All sorts of bad things could happen at this point. At best they foul us with 4 seconds or so still on the clock.

There would be 5 seconds at most. And then there shouldn't be much trouble inbounding the ball when you have two or three timeouts left. The odds are so much in ISU's favor to foul that I'm not sure why so many of you are against it. You HAVE to foul in that situation because it gives you the best opportunity to win.

**WooClone15** · 01-10-2013, 04:51 PM

Originally Posted by KSUcat

There would be 5 seconds at most. And then there shouldn't be much trouble inbounding the ball when you have two or three timeouts left. The odds are so much in ISU's favor to foul that I'm not sure why so many of you are against it. You HAVE to foul in that situation because it gives you the best opportunity to win.

I don't think too many people are against it, so much as they don't think fouling results in a guaranteed win (which is what it seems like a lot of people are saying). If we had fouled, I wouldn't have a problem with that, but I don't like the idea of allowing the officials to save Kansas. When you play at Kansas, it seems like you're playing 5 against 6 or 5 against 7. The officials give them so many breaks. I'd rather force Kansas to make an incredible shot, then foul and let the officials send Kansas to the line on a three point shooting foul.

**BallSoHard4Cy** · 01-10-2013, 05:01 PM

The argument Fred made was a good one. We have no height and and KU has Withey and Young we can get the boards. Plus you're missing Niang, who's also not very tall, but still very skilled. I think Fred made the right coaching move, but that's just my opinion. While I agree this would have been a positive program win, I think it's also I positive program loss. It hurts now, but now at least we know that these guys have got some kind of heart, and they'll be hungry. Texas better be scared.

**Bobby45** · 01-10-2013, 05:03 PM

Originally Posted by wonkadog

I just can't believe how many people actually think that there is any chance in hell KU makes the first and then tips it back out for a 3. Compare how many times you've seen that happen vs. how many times you've seen a team come down and make a last-second 3-pointer. It's not even close.

I can somewhat buy the "make the first, tip in the second" argument although I still say that's a rare occurrence.

I agree with your analysis btw the way elijah johnson was shooting free throws HE would have MISSED 2 in a row and we would have rebounded the miss and been shooting free throws at the other end of the court.

Bottom Line We Blew It............

**KSUcat** · 01-10-2013, 05:06 PM

Originally Posted by WooClone15

I don't think too many people are against it, so much as they don't think fouling results in a guaranteed win (which is what it seems like a lot of people are saying). If we had fouled, I wouldn't have a problem with that, but I don't like the idea of allowing the officials to save Kansas. When you play at Kansas, it seems like you're playing 5 against 6 or 5 against 7. The officials give them so many breaks. I'd rather force Kansas to make an incredible shot, then foul and let the officials send Kansas to the line on a three point shooting foul.

That's why you foul well before KU is looking to shoot the ball. Then, you don't have to worry about the officials sending KU to the line on a three point shooting foul. Plus, when KU is in a situation like they were last night and they need a three with little time left, they run the same play every time, which involves one or two passes, so you know whoever dribbles it up the court isn't a threat to shoot it. The play they ran last night at the end of regulation was essentially the same one they used to tie Memphis in '08.

**KSUcat** · 01-10-2013, 05:08 PM

Originally Posted by BallSoHard4Cy

The argument Fred made was a good one. We have no height and and KU has Withey and Young we can get the boards. Plus you're missing Niang, who's also not very tall, but still very skilled. I think Fred made the right coaching move, but that's just my opinion. While I agree this would have been a positive program win, I think it's also I positive program loss. It hurts now, but now at least we know that these guys have got some kind of heart, and they'll be hungry. Texas better be scared.

You have 4 guys down in the block compared to KU's 2. No matter how tall Withey is, the odds are in ISU's favor to get the rebound in that situation.

**VeloClone** · 01-10-2013, 05:15 PM

Originally Posted by KSUcat

You have 4 guys down in the block compared to KU's 2. No matter how tall Withey is, the odds are in ISU's favor to get the rebound in that situation.

Come on, the officials have yet to call a foul on Withey this year*. Do you honestly think they are going to call a foul on him when he climbs over our player to get the ball. They will call a foul when he puts it up and in though so he can go to the line for the win.

* Yes I know that is hyperbole, but 18 fouls in 14 games is ridiculous low especially when you see how he leans into the screens he sets at the top of the key and how he uses his off hand to gain leverage on the offensive player while he is blocking the shot with his other hand. He's a great player but he definitely is getting the elite calls this year.

**jsb** · 01-10-2013, 05:17 PM

Originally Posted by KSUcat

You have 4 guys down in the block compared to KU's 2. No matter how tall Withey is, the odds are in ISU's favor to get the rebound in that situation.

Why don't you worry about your own team and we'll worry about ours, OK?

My big fear with fouling is that the officials would swallow their whistles until Kansas was actually shooting. Also the offensive rebound thing with our short lineup would be a real concern.

**BallSoHard4Cy** · 01-10-2013, 05:19 PM

Originally Posted by KSUcat

You have 4 guys down in the block compared to KU's 2. No matter how tall Withey is, the odds are in ISU's favor to get the rebound in that situation.

I know the odds. But the odds were also good that the offline 3 wouldn't bank. McLemore did not call bank by the way. Just a cocky attitude by a guy who was having some success. You can tell he's not staying another year.

**VeloClone** · 01-10-2013, 05:23 PM

Originally Posted by BallSoHard4Cy

I know the odds. But the odds were also good that the offline 3 wouldn't bank. McLemore did not call bank by the way. Just a cocky attitude by a guy who was having some success. You can tell he's not staying another year.

Self is going to have to pull another rabbit out of his hat next year, that is for sure. If McLemore leaves they will lose Young, Withey, Johnson, Releford along with him. To put that in perspective that would be:
100% of the steals,
100% of the blocks,
94% of the assists,
85% of the points,
82% of the minutes and
82% of the rebounds from last night's game.

**casey1973** · 01-10-2013, 05:27 PM

Originally Posted by BallSoHard4Cy

I know the odds. But the odds were also good that the offline 3 wouldn't bank. McLemore did not call bank by the way. Just a cocky attitude by a guy who was having some success. You can tell he's not staying another year.

I hope the players remember his "I'm really good" attitude when they visit Hilton.

**mjhavlo76** · 01-10-2013, 05:40 PM

I can understand how people/fans would think you need to foul McLemore in the waning seconds of regulation up by three. But, I don't think people/fans should get on Coach Hoiberg's case for choosing not to foul. McLemore threw up a prayer, and it banked in. It was well defended by us. Yes, we could have fouled McLemore way before he came to the perimeter and have him earn it at the line. But, play this scenario---what if McLemore made the first free throw intentionally missed the second and Withey got the offensive board and stuffed it in. Would have equated to the same result. You know..you can Monday morning quarterback this thing forever!! I would say most coaches would not have fouled in that situation, and I think it was a good decision not to foul by Coach Hoiberg!

**BallSoHard4Cy** · 01-10-2013, 05:56 PM

Originally Posted by VeloClone

Self is going to have to pull another rabbit out of his hat next year, that is for sure. If McLemore leaves they will lose Young, Withey, Johnson, Releford along with him. To put that in perspective that would be:
100% of the steals,
100% of the blocks,
94% of the assists,
85% of the points,
82% of the minutes and
82% of the rebounds from last night's game.

They will reload. We know that for sure. They may be like UNC or UK this year.