Williams Blog: Loss at OU disappointing for multiple reasons

**ChrisMWilliams** · 03-02-2013, 05:44 PM

Williams Blog: Loss at OU disappointing for multiple reasons | News | Men's Basketball | Cyclone Fanatic

**CyJack13** · 03-02-2013, 06:03 PM

Games like this are why I strongly disagreed with your previous line of thinking:

Defense is important, but not as much for this Iowa State squad as most around the country. Like I wrote a few weeks ago, Fred Hoiberg basketball reminds me a lot of the “Moneyball” theory in baseball. Just out-score the other team

If you don't play defense and your shots don't fall, you end with games like the one today.

**NIClone** · 03-02-2013, 06:33 PM

You have us at 10-8 with a win Wednesday. Are you forgetting the WVU game or just chalking up a road loss already?

**ChrisMWilliams** · 03-02-2013, 07:58 PM

Originally Posted by NIClone

You have us at 10-8 with a win Wednesday. Are you forgetting the WVU game or just chalking up a road loss already?

Not at all. Was just stating the worst-case scenario.

**ChrisMWilliams** · 03-02-2013, 08:00 PM

Originally Posted by CyJack13

Games like this are why I strongly disagreed with your previous line of thinking:

Defense is important, but not as much for this Iowa State squad as most around the country. Like I wrote a few weeks ago, Fred Hoiberg basketball reminds me a lot of the “Moneyball” theory in baseball. Just out-score the other team

If you don't play defense and your shots don't fall, you end with games like the one today.

Not my line of thinking. It is the truth and is how this program plays. Off nights happen. It is the risk you take.

**CyJack13** · 03-02-2013, 08:09 PM

Originally Posted by ChrisMWilliams

Not my line of thinking. It is the truth and is how this program plays. Off nights happen. It is the risk you take.

And as we're seeing, it's very hard to win consistently with that philosophy. Fun to watch, but not likely to ever have real success with that style.

**fattgregg** · 03-02-2013, 08:11 PM

Originally Posted by ChrisMWilliams

Not my line of thinking. It is the truth and is how this program plays. Off nights happen. It is the risk you take.

This. All the people screaming about lack of defense need to get with the program. This is the playing style Fred has decided to run, either get used to it or become a fan of a Big 10 team. This isn't the first blow out and it won't be the last, but personally I'll take 20+ win seasons over defense and NIT bids.

**jbhtexas** · 03-02-2013, 08:14 PM

Originally Posted by ChrisMWilliams

Not my line of thinking. It is the truth and is how this program plays. Off nights happen. It is the risk you take.

This year's ISU team is a Johnny Orr team...lots of offense...little defense...some big home wins...few road wins...lots of heartbreak. Johnny, as great as he was for ISU MBB, only made it to the Sweet 16 one time at ISU, and while at ISU missed the NCAA tourney more than he made it.

There's a reason why Gary Thompson went to personally lobby Tim Floyd after Tim initially turned down the ISU job. And it wasn't because Floyd's teams were offensive juggernauts. GT knew that offense-only can't win championships in a major basketball conference. CFH needs to sprinkle in a little Tim Floyd...

**CyJack13** · 03-02-2013, 08:16 PM

Originally Posted by fattgregg

This. All the people screaming about lack of defense need to get with the program. This is the playing style Fred has decided to run, either get used to it or become a fan of a Big 10 team. This isn't the first blow out and it won't be the last, but personally I'll take 20+ win seasons over defense and NIT bids.

There is another alternative here, as Eustachy and Floyd showed

**CyJack13** · 03-02-2013, 08:21 PM

Saw this article this week too, 18 of the last 20 Final Four teams have been in the top 30 in the country in defensive efficiency (we're currently 124th - before the OU game). 16 of the 20 were in the top 20 and 9 of the 20 were in the top 5. If Fred is really picking the let's just outscore them strategy, well it's the wrong one if we ever want to have real success.

Best Way to Pick Final Four Teams? Look at Ken Pomeroy’s Defensive Efficiency Numbers | The Big Lead

**fattgregg** · 03-02-2013, 08:25 PM

Originally Posted by CyJack13

There is another alternative here, as Eustachy and Floyd showed

The Big 12 has changed, the players attitudes have changed. Big recruits don't play D anymore (except centers). I think the system CFH runs is more appealing to recruits than most. I don't see Hoiberg leaving anytime soon so everybody might as well just sit back and enjoy the ride.

**CyJack13** · 03-02-2013, 08:27 PM

Originally Posted by fattgregg

The Big 12 has changed, the players attitudes have changed. Big recruits don't play D anymore (except centers). I think the system CFH runs is more appealing to recruits than most. I don't see Hoiberg leaving anytime soon so everybody might as well just sit back and enjoy the ride.

Whenever there's holes in your argument, do you always just make up facts? I remember watching Anthony Davis and Michael Kidd-Gilchrist play some damn good defense last year. Did I just make that up?

**gocubs2118** · 03-02-2013, 08:31 PM

This years defense has been BY FAR the worse of Fred's 3 years here. Last year they were 57 in Kenpom for defensive effiencey, which is right around where it needs to be. I'm willing to give him the benefit of the doubt this year that this will not be a yearly occurrence

**fattgregg** · 03-02-2013, 08:38 PM

Originally Posted by CyJack13

Whenever there's holes in your argument, do you always just make up facts? I remember watching Anthony Davis and Michael Kidd-Gilchrist play some damn good defense last year. Did I just make that up?

I said centers, there has been a run of solid defensive center recruits recently. It was more of a blanket statement, you never hear of a recruit choosing program A over program B based on them playing defense. It's an offensive sport. That's what gets kids drafted and that's really the end goal for all 5 star recruits isn't it?

**klamath632** · 03-02-2013, 08:41 PM

All this talk of "they just need to win one more and we'll put them in the tournament" feels a lot like Maverick after the accident that killed Goose. The teachers are trying to get him back into the game, but he's not having it. What if the Kansas loss really broke the Cyclones? I'm a little bit scared that they are done for the season.

I'm hopeful the Clones will get back in the saddle and shoot down some MiGs, but I'm not counting on it right now.