Lets not fire McDermott just yet (long)

[cybsball20]

One more thing: No recruit to any college in Iowa ever came because he looked around and thought, "Wow there's no pro teams in the state, I'll really be noticed if I come here."

I will have to disagree with you there. There is definately something to the 'big fish in a small pond' thing that is attractive to some players.

[DaddyMac]

He did recruit Taggart who was one of the best centers in the country to prepare for losing Homan, but Taggart turned out to be a flop. Same w/ Jessan Gray and Aaron Agnew. He had big men, but the big men he had turned out to not be very good at the position.

The Aaron Agnew recruit kind of defeats your comment about him not recruiting a prototypical post.

I do agree that Morgan let Stinson run out of control, which was VERY annoying to watch, but Mac let Mike T do that also. A lot.

I do think that Mac is a better coach than Morgan, but that's not saying much. I just question if he can recruit well enough to ever make ISU competitive in the BIG 12. I truly hope he can.

Well, opinions vary. I don't think any of those hold a candle to Homan and I guess I consider all of them - Taggart and Grey in particular, as more of a power forward. Agnew wasn't around long enough, nor played enough to really guage his role. I guess I think of him as a PF as well, but I see your point.

FWIW, I don't really discredit Wayne for recruiting how he did. I think his style of ball was to have bigger, athletic fowards and guard oriented teams - and not a true back to the basket post player or dominating inside defensive presence. A role that we probably haven't really had before Homan since Kelvin Cato - so Wayne is hardly unique in the absence of this position.

And I completely agree with you last assessment. Mac is a better coach and probably tactician. Wayne is/was an outstanding recruiter. However I think the tag on him coming in was justified - great recruiter, not a great coach.

[CyRocket]

Actually, my eyes are WIDE OPEN. I live in SEC land and I see a lot of SEC BB. Interesting that I never heard the take that Rod Barnes could recruit great talent but not coach it. Actually, he recruited pretty average SEC talent and hung his hat on a defensive oriented slow it down approach.

At any rate, Let's take a look at Ole Miss. They are 14-1 this year. Only 4 players remain on the team that were on Barnes' last team from two years ago (the 05-06 team)...of those 4, only 2 (Dwayne Curtis and Jeremy Parnell are getting over 10 minutes a game this year. Curtis is averaging 15 ppg and Parnell is averaging 4 ppg. 73% of the offensive production this year comes from players that were not in the program 2 years ago. Curtis averages 8 rpg and Parnell 4 rpg but 55% of the rebounds this year come from players that were not in the program 2 years ago.

That sure looks like a lot of turnover in the Ole Miss program for a coach that has only been there slightly less than 2 years but they are 14-1 and in the top 20...HOW CAN THAT BE?

My point is simple...things can (and do) change rapidly in CBB. Why do we, as ISU fans, always have to "give it time"?

You are certainly right about "instant gratification"...McDermott certainly got instant gratification when he signed his contract with ISU...why, as fans, can we not demand some instant gratification in the win column?

How can that be, could it be that this is the exception. One program out of who knows how many. Look at the contract and you will find that he is not exactly the highest paid coach in the country, even the state. We get it, you want winning now at any cost. Maybe we should have hired Huggy and bought a winning record. I for one am glad we didn't. I go back to what I said in my first post, by your reasoning we should fire any one that doesn't win at the highest level instantly. In my opinion this would ruin ISU. Who wants to coach at a school where you have only 2 years to establish a high level (Big 12 champion ect.) program. I hate to tell you but ISU does not have a great tradition. That said it is very possible for such a tradition to be built. But that is only possible by keeping coachs not firing them.

[Cyfan13]

Well, opinions vary. I don't think any of those hold a candle to Homan and I guess I consider all of them - Taggart and Grey in particular, as more of a power forward. Agnew wasn't around long enough, nor played enough to really guage his role. I guess I think of him as a PF as well, but I see your point.

FWIW, I don't really discredit Wayne for recruiting how he did. I think his style of ball was to have bigger, athletic fowards and guard oriented teams - and not a true back to the basket post player or dominating inside defensive presence. A role that we probably haven't really had before Homan since Kelvin Cato - so Wayne is hardly unique in the absence of this position.

And I completely agree with you last assessment. Mac is a better coach and probably tactician. Wayne is/was an outstanding recruiter. However I think the tag on him coming in was justified - great recruiter, not a great coach.

I agree with everything you said expect that Agnew was more of a PF. He was 6-10, 330 and couldn't move fast enough to be a PF. And again, in regards to Homan, he gained a ton of weight/strength and improved drastically four years at ISU, so who knows what could have happened if Taggart or Agnew were still here.

I guess my problem is everyone always predicting the future. It seems people just assume things are going to be a certain way, when they really have no idea. Do I know Morgan would have made ISU a great team competing in the tournament every year? No. But I don't know that about Mac either. We won't know what Mac can do in the Big 12 in a few years until he does it.

[jbhtexas]

I just question if he can recruit well enough to ever make ISU competitive in the BIG 12. I truly hope he can.

So far, GMac has been able to recruit what appears to be some Big 12-caliber guards and forwards. However, he's lost out on a number of the "big-time" post players that he was after. I find this somewhat disconcerting, since GMac has the reputation (at least on this board) of being a coach who develops post players, and also since the ISU post position is wide open for some kid to come in and contribute immediately.

Nobody challenges for the Big 12 title without solid post play. It doesn't have to be outstanding, but it does have to be solid. ISU has Hamilton coming in for the post, but that's it. Barring a top-notch JuCo transfer, ISU is probably at least 2 years from having something solid for the post (while Hamilton develops), and if Hamilton doesn't pan out, ISU has nothing.

[Cyfan13]

[QUOTE=CyRocket;320107]How can that be, could it be that this is the exception. One program out of who knows how many. Look at the contract and you will find that he is not exactly the highest paid coach in the country, even the state. We get it, you want winning now at any cost. Maybe we should have hired Huggy and bought a winning record. I for one am glad we didn't. I go back to what I said in my first post, by your reasoning we should fire any one that doesn't win at the highest level instantly. In my opinion this would ruin ISU. Who wants to coach at a school where you have only 2 years to establish a high level (Big 12 champion ect.) program. I hate to tell you but ISU does not have a great tradition. That said it is very possible for such a tradition to be built. But that is only possible by keeping coachs not firing them.[/QUOTE]

Just for argument's sake, this could be used as an argument for why Morgan shouldn't have been fired.

[DaddyMac]

I agree with everything you said expect that Agnew was more of a PF. He was 6-10, 330 and couldn't move fast enough to be a PF. And again, in regards to Homan, he gained a ton of weight/strength and improved drastically four years at ISU, so who knows what could have happened if Taggart or Agnew were still here.

I guess my problem is everyone always predicting the future. It seems people just assume things are going to be a certain way, when they really have no idea. Do I know Morgan would have made ISU a great team competing in the tournament every year? No. But I don't know that about Mac either. We won't know what Mac can do in the Big 12 in a few years until he does it.

You're right, I'm thinking of somebody else. A bigger kid who only made it maybe first semester his freshman year.

Name is escaping me.

[cyclonenum1]

How can that be, could it be that this is the exception. One program out of who knows how many. Look at the contract and you will find that he is not exactly the highest paid coach in the country, even the state. We get it, you want winning now at any cost. Maybe we should have hired Huggy and bought a winning record. I for one am glad we didn't. I go back to what I said in my first post, by your reasoning we should fire any one that doesn't win at the highest level instantly. In my opinion this would ruin ISU. Who wants to coach at a school where you have only 2 years to establish a high level (Big 12 champion ect.) program. I hate to tell you but ISU does not have a great tradition. That said it is very possible for such a tradition to be built. But that is only possible by keeping coachs not firing them.

Excuse me for wanting to have an exceptional program!

I'm sure I could find others that have had better success than ISU in a similar transition. I used Ole Miss because I am a little familiar with their situation and frankly it is not too dis-similar from the ISU situation.

Morgan had a better last year than Barnes did at Ole Miss. But today, both programs have experienced a similar transition. Both have very few on their roster from 2 seasons ago (ISU 3 and Ole Miss 4). Both only have 2 current "contributors" that were on the roster 2 years ago.

The big difference I see is that they are not talking about next year at Ole Miss...they are winning now. I find all this "it takes time" talk to be annoying.

By the way, why do you always assume that you have to be cheating if you win right away? The only way to "do it the right way" is to suffer through a series of mediocre seasons? Please!

Maybe we don't have a great transition because we don't demand greatness.

[CloneAggie]

So far, GMac has been able to recruit what appears to be some Big 12-caliber guards and forwards. However, he's lost out on a number of the "big-time" post players that he was after. I find this somewhat disconcerting, since GMac has the reputation (at least on this board) of being a coach who develops post players, and also since the ISU post position is wide open for some kid to come in and contribute immediately.

I've heard this said alot also. What is the basis of this? I'm not doubting it, just don't know what it is based on. I apologize if this has been discussed before.

[Drive4cy]

We don't have great tradition all time but the last 20 years our program has been just fine. Several NCAA tourney appearances and victories, four conference titles (2 reg season, 2 conf tourney) in the last 12 years, etc. We aren't Nebraska over here.

[jdoggivjc]

Excuse me for wanting to have an exceptional program!

I'm sure I could find others that have had better success than ISU in a similar transition. I used Ole Miss because I am a little familiar with their situation and frankly it is not too dis-similar from the ISU situation.

Morgan had a better last year than Barnes did at Ole Miss. But today, both programs have experienced a similar transition. Both have very few on their roster from 2 seasons ago (ISU 3 and Ole Miss 4). Both only have 2 current "contributors" that were on the roster 2 years ago.

The big difference I see is that they are not talking about next year at Ole Miss...they are winning now. I find all this "it takes time" talk to be annoying.

By the way, why do you always assume that you have to be cheating if you win right away? The only way to "do it the right way" is to suffer through a series of mediocre seasons? Please!

Maybe we don't have a great transition because we don't demand greatness.

Let's see, in the case of Mississippi - 2-3 years of good basketball followed by 5-6 years of terrible basketball seems to be the pattern they usually follow. No thank you. I'd rather build a consistent winner, and that's a build that's not done overnight.

[ahaselhu]

Excuse me for wanting to have an exceptional program!

I'm sure I could find others that have had better success than ISU in a similar transition. I used Ole Miss because I am a little familiar with their situation and frankly it is not too dis-similar from the ISU situation.

Morgan had a better last year than Barnes did at Ole Miss. But today, both programs have experienced a similar transition. Both have very few on their roster from 2 seasons ago (ISU 3 and Ole Miss 4). Both only have 2 current "contributors" that were on the roster 2 years ago.

The big difference I see is that they are not talking about next year at Ole Miss...they are winning now. I find all this "it takes time" talk to be annoying.

By the way, why do you always assume that you have to be cheating if you win right away? The only way to "do it the right way" is to suffer through a series of mediocre seasons? Please!

Maybe we don't have a great transition because we don't demand greatness.

Just curious, what is your timetable for GMac, and what does he need to accomplish in that time to satisfy you (make the tournament, sweet sixteen, etc.)?

[aeroclone08]

You're right, I'm thinking of somebody else. A bigger kid who only made it maybe first semester his freshman year.

Name is escaping me.

Robert Faulkner?

[clonomaniac]

I don't think Mac should be canned this year, next year, the year after that, or even the year after that.

BUT....I am getting tired of feeling like we're in a constant state of rebuilding with MBB.

McD deserves 3 more years from Iowa State. And he will not only take us to NCAA but also get us to big 12 championship. I admire him the most out of all Iowa State coaches that came and left. Our Mens basketball program hasn't been a stable one since LE. It will take at least 2 years to rebuild, expect to see big things next year.

[CrossCyed]

I've heard this said alot also. What is the basis of this? I'm not doubting it, just don't know what it is based on. I apologize if this has been discussed before.

I've wondered this as well.

I've long been a questioner of Mac, although I don't think the Baylor game prompted any new questions.

You give him the length of his contract at the very least, that's for sure.