im sorry but it needs to be said

**lennon3** · 02-10-2008, 12:27 PM

It's kind of ironic when you think about all of the lowly regarded recruits we have gotten who turned out to compete for big 12 freshman of the year in the past few years: Wes, Stinson, and Sullivan... and when we get the most highly regarded recruit in school history he probably isn't even going to make the big 12 all freshman team! I'm not saying he isn't going to be great, I just think its kind of ironic! Some of this has to do with the level of recruits other teams are getting though as well since the NBA rule.

**RivClone23** · 02-11-2008, 04:04 AM

You just cant compare the situations of McD and WM. Wayne became the coach to keep the players and recruits that we had. In McDs case he lost a whole class and stinson and blalock to the draft. So to say that there is a precedent because Wayne was gone after year three is just unfair to McD.

**cyclonenum1** · 02-11-2008, 06:44 AM

I don't understand why everyone calls Brackins the "most highly rated freshman" in school history? Fizer was, to my knowledge, our only McDonald's HS AA ever...I think that would make him the most highly rated frosh at ISU.

As a couple of earlier posters pointed out...Fizer did have a pretty darn good freshman year...I guess those that think otherwise were hoping for 25 and 15 from him!

I am sold on Brackins. I do think he needs to work on his footwork...especially on the defensive end. But he is clearly going to be a special player at ISU.

**BryceC** · 02-11-2008, 07:02 AM

Originally Posted by lennon3

It's kind of ironic when you think about all of the lowly regarded recruits we have gotten who turned out to compete for big 12 freshman of the year in the past few years: Wes, Stinson, and Sullivan... and when we get the most highly regarded recruit in school history he probably isn't even going to make the big 12 all freshman team! I'm not saying he isn't going to be great, I just think its kind of ironic! Some of this has to do with the level of recruits other teams are getting though as well since the NBA rule.

Actually it's not all that weird, it takes longer for freshman big guys to get adjusted. DeAndre Jordan from A&M is listed as the #8 prospect in the entire country last year, was a consensus 5 star pick, etc. He doesn't even start for his team and has zero chance of making the all freshman team.

As for our other guys being "lowly regarded" - Stinson was a top 150 player, Sullivan's RSCI rating was 58, and Brackins' RSCI rating was 50. RSCI is a composite of all the ratings services.

Sullivan was also surrounded by outstanding talent and played on a team that really worked to his strengths his freshman year.

I think people are going way overboard on Brackins right now - he's still a young guy and he's still a very talented scorer. He's just had a few bad games and he's very young. He has a long way to go to become a totally well rounded player but we're extremely lucky to have him and he's had some great games too. The pendulum always swings way to far both ways.

**cyclonenum1** · 02-11-2008, 07:17 AM

Let me give you a name of a player that was truly the most over-rated ISU frosh (in my opinion). Mark Baugh...he was supposed to be better than Grayer. I bet a lot of you "young pups" don't even know his name...with good reason, he was nowhere near the player that Grayer was.

**pulse** · 02-11-2008, 08:21 AM

If we're talking about rating freshman, how many classes has everyone paid attention to? I'm thinking may be 2-5 at most... Fizer was the most highly regarded, it was a big deal. Hoiberg was pretty highly regarded too, Lute Olsen of Arizona and Roy Williams of Kansas both wanted him. Brackins is going to be good, judging a guy by his freshman year is ludicrous. Neither one of those guys were stellar, but nobody should realistically expect a freshman to be. When Adam Haluska was a freshman I knew he'd be good (okay he didn't stay but he was good).

Mark Baugh would have been a good player if he would have opened a text book. He may have been a little overrated, but he was still pretty good. The best guy on the team was probably Sam The Hamburgler Mack (yeah I know its a McD character and not a Burger King character).

**CYKOFAN** · 02-11-2008, 01:47 PM

I think Brackins will be just fine. Look how Homan and Jiri developed as they gained maturity and experience. In fact Jiri's development reminds me very much of Homan's. Both became two of the best big men in the conference by the time they were seniors, and Brackins can do the same.

**kingcy** · 02-11-2008, 01:50 PM

Originally Posted by CYKOFAN

I think Brackins will be just fine. Look how Homan and Jiri developed as they gained maturity and experience. In fact Jiri's development reminds me very much of Homan's. Both became two of the best big men in the conference by the time they were seniors, and Brackins can do the same.

Good post. That is the story of most big men in ISU's history they are ok to start then in the Jr and Sr years they become some of the best in the conference. The same can be said about a lot of bigs in the Big 12 and NCAA basketball as a whole.

**jdoggivjc** · 02-11-2008, 01:59 PM

Originally Posted by cyclone#1

Let me give you a name of a player that was truly the most over-rated ISU frosh (in my opinion). Mark Baugh...he was supposed to be better than Grayer. I bet a lot of you "young pups" don't even know his name...with good reason, he was nowhere near the player that Grayer was.

I'll give you an even more recent name - Marsden. Wasn't he supposed to be better than Homan was? Then the guy quits the team to play club baseball...

**peachy** · 02-11-2008, 02:13 PM

Brack definitely has some talent, there is no doubt about that. As one poster said, I think the Baylor game really hurt him. Sure, he dropped in 33, and hit about 20 3's, but what has he done since then? Since then, he looks to score everytime he touches the ball. As soon, as he touches it, he is jacking up some crazy shot. He is also launching a ton of 3's. IMO, for him to be a great player, he needs to play within the offense. He needs to crash the boards. He definitley needs to learn to play defense and box out (we are getting killed on the offensive glass).

I really wish McD would yank him in the game the next time he throws up some fadeaway baseline hook. Once he understands he does not have to be "the man", he can develop as a player. Until then, watching him play reminds me of the Capital City league. No defense, and trying for the Sportscenter clip on offense.

**Landshark** · 02-11-2008, 02:14 PM

Originally Posted by isucyfan

Wasn't Gruber another kid that came in with average abilities and left as a much more than serviceable big guy?

Plus, I think just the fact that McDermott was a post player himself qualifies him as a good teacher of post players.

I forgot about Gruber, he held his own. Thanks!!

**Landshark** · 02-11-2008, 02:16 PM

Originally Posted by cyclone#1

Let me give you a name of a player that was truly the most over-rated ISU frosh (in my opinion). Mark Baugh...he was supposed to be better than Grayer. I bet a lot of you "young pups" don't even know his name...with good reason, he was nowhere near the player that Grayer was.

Mark Baugh was never going to be the next Grayer, but he played hard. Too bad he couldn't cut it and too bad Sam Mack had to screw up....what could've been?????

**cybsball20** · 02-11-2008, 02:53 PM

Originally Posted by peachy

Since then, he looks to score everytime he touches the ball. As soon, as he touches it, he is jacking up some crazy shot.

You just described about every 'big' we have had the last 8 years.

**jay moe** · 02-11-2008, 03:09 PM

Originally Posted by cyclone#1

Let me give you a name of a player that was truly the most over-rated ISU frosh (in my opinion). Mark Baugh...he was supposed to be better than Grayer. I bet a lot of you "young pups" don't even know his name...with good reason, he was nowhere near the player that Grayer was.

I remember Baugh, he was pretty good but ended up flunking out. He and Sam Mack were 2 good players on that team never finished their careers at ISU. Whatever happened to Baugh?
On a different note, I thought some of our coaching decisions late in the Texas game cost us the win. We had Johnson and Hubalek both on the bench when Texas got back into the game, and in overtime we don't start Hubalek, didn't make sense to me, and when Hubalek went in, Clark came out. I know both had 4 fouls, but what were we saving them for? Very questionable in my mind.

**lennon3** · 02-11-2008, 03:10 PM

Originally Posted by BryceC

Actually it's not all that weird, it takes longer for freshman big guys to get adjusted. DeAndre Jordan from A&M is listed as the #8 prospect in the entire country last year, was a consensus 5 star pick, etc. He doesn't even start for his team and has zero chance of making the all freshman team.

As for our other guys being "lowly regarded" - Stinson was a top 150 player, Sullivan's RSCI rating was 58, and Brackins' RSCI rating was 50. RSCI is a composite of all the ratings services.

Sullivan was also surrounded by outstanding talent and played on a team that really worked to his strengths his freshman year.

I think people are going way overboard on Brackins right now - he's still a young guy and he's still a very talented scorer. He's just had a few bad games and he's very young. He has a long way to go to become a totally well rounded player but we're extremely lucky to have him and he's had some great games too. The pendulum always swings way to far both ways.

I don't know what freshman team you are talking about but I was talking about Big 12 all freshman team... and Deandre has a VERY good chance of making that team even though he doesn't start for his team. It is probably a toss up right now for the fifth spot with him and Brackins and with the way Brackins is slumping recently I would say right now Deandre probably has the better chance.

Also with Stinson I wasn't considering him lowly regarded because of what he was rated in stars I was going by that I remember our main, and basically only, competition was Drexel, and if that isn't lowly regarded idk what is.

One more thing, you say that it takes longer for freshman bigs to get adjusted, which I agree with. But its not like they put five guards on the list to make up for the lack of bigs.