I have SERIOUS doubts about McDermott

Angie · 02-16-2008, 05:27 PM

Originally Posted by Cyclone42

Go back to my original argument: that Johnny Orr team vs. this year's Greg McDermott team. There were a LOT of freshmen on that team: Fred Hoiberg, Julio, Meyer, etc. And the talent wasn't all that spectacular, but they somehow managed to win.

I'd imagine that someone more knowledgeable about ISU history than me could do a position-by-position comparison of those two teams, and Mac's team would come out ahead in terms of talent at every position. And yet we still lose, while that team managed to get to the NCAAs.

I think that, for this to be an accurate comparison, you'd have to compare Orr's second year to this team. Orr had been coaching for a looooooong time by the time that team took the floor, and all of the recruits, system, etc. were his.

chadm · 02-16-2008, 05:29 PM

Originally Posted by Angie

I think that, for this to be an accurate comparison, you'd have to compare Orr's second year to this team. Orr had been coaching for a looooooong time by the time that team took the floor, and all of the recruits, system, etc. were his.

How dare you bring sense into this arguement.

zach · 02-16-2008, 05:30 PM

For those who don't understand at this point what Bruce Vande didn't do, what Larry "Mr Natty Lite" did do and Wayne "Scortched earth Policy" Morgan did do via 8 players leaving before Greg came in, YOU WILL NEVER GET IT IF YOU HAVEN'T GOT IT YET! Anyone one of these issues can set back a program and yet we had all of them happen.

Z

Chris · 02-16-2008, 05:31 PM

I think everyone is frustrated and everyone wants better results at this time ( I too want FASTER results), BUT, as everyone in the AD department has said, it's time to do it right no matter the program. This second half is what we want to see... might take a while longer for it to become common place, but give it a chance. After years of hope/disappointment, I want hope and decent play/records to be the common place.

markshir · 02-16-2008, 05:32 PM

Here is what Wikipedia says about the season that you specifically picked to compare... Fred Hoiberg's freshman year.

Iowa State's fortunes improved during the 1991-92 season, with the Cyclones finishing 21-13 overall (5-9 in conference play) and earning the No. 10 seed in the East Region of the NCAA Tournament. The Cyclones defeated No. 7 seed UNC-Charlotte in the opening round before losing 106-98 to the No. 2 seed Kentucky Wildcats in the round of 32. Iowa State recorded wins over #16 Iowa, #21 Oklahoma, #2 Oklahoma State, #3 Kansas, and #13 Missouri during the regular season. Junior Justus Thigpen led the team with 16.3 points per game, while junior Ron Bayless averaged 12.6 points per game. Freshmen Julius Michalik and Fred Hoiberg averaged 13.6 and 12.1 points per game, respectively.

It doesn't mention Loren Meyer, though he was on the team that year. To say that he was devoid of talent beyond the inexperienced freshman completely ignores Thigpen (a very very good player) and Bayless, who I don't know all that much about.

Thigpen's numbers that year for scoring as roughly similar to Taylor's points last year. How do you think that team would have done if Thigpen had been kicked off? Please stop throwing out inaccurate comparisons to past seasons in Iowa State history.

markshir · 02-16-2008, 05:34 PM

Also, we should have fired Orr. 9-18, 10-17, 13-15 were his first three seasons. (Worse than McDermott, if you do the math).

Orr's second season he had the sophomore Ron Harris (Harrison Barnes' dad) and a freshman Barry Stevens and still had a terrible record. Seriously, why did we ever put up with that crap at Hilton?

isucyfan · 02-16-2008, 05:35 PM

Originally Posted by markshir

Also, we should have fired Orr. 9-18, 10-17, 13-15 were his first three seasons. (Worse than McDermott, if you do the math).

markshir, you are on fire! Great post.

isucyfan · 02-16-2008, 05:38 PM

Originally Posted by markshir

It doesn't mention Loren Meyer, though he was on the team that year. To say that he was devoid of talent beyond the inexperienced freshman completely ignores Thigpen (a very very good player) and Bayless, who I don't know all that much about.

Bayless was a rock for this team. He and Thigpen made up one of the best backcourts in the nation.

Does anyone notice that this team was successful with a bunch of freshman, but had veteran guards? This year's team lacks veteran guards and the inexperience is exposed because of that.

zach · 02-16-2008, 05:39 PM

Originally Posted by markshir

Also, we should have fired Orr. 9-18, 10-17, 13-15 were his first three seasons. (Worse than McDermott, if you do the math).

Orr's second season he had the sophomore Ron Harris (Harrison Barnes' dad) and a freshman Barry Stevens and still had a terrible record. Seriously, why did we ever put up with that crap at Hilton?

Yep great post!...

ISUKyro · 02-16-2008, 05:44 PM

Good points. And had to give out some good rep in here!!
It sucks guys but we really need to give it time. I know (and I'm the same way too) we all want to win big NOW, and in todays world of business and such that is all that is accepted. But we just can't turn things around in one year, even in two. God willing we can start to turn the corner in 3 and start to have some real fun in either year 3 or 4. Sucks to hear it, sucks to say it.... but then again it is just the way that it is.

Edit: Sorry for using sucks so much - if it's too harsh Angie feel free to change it down a notch ;)

Balls · 02-16-2008, 05:47 PM

Still can't think of a good excuse for the horrible first half, including the lack of preparation, lack of emotion, lack of leadership... and the second half only further supports my concerns as it shows we can play decently and we don't lack the talent to respectfully compete.

rhillary · 02-16-2008, 05:54 PM

Originally Posted by CP44

For those of you who have said McDermott hasn't outcoached anybody, I'd like to see another coach who could do what he has done with Jiri. The transformation of his game from when McD arrived til now is astounding.

I was the one who had the comment about not out-coaching anyone, and I will agree with you here. He has made Jiri a much better player.

uro cy · 02-16-2008, 06:00 PM

Originally Posted by isucyfan

Bayless was a rock for this team. He and Thigpen made up one of the best backcourts in the nation.

Agreed, he was a very solid and under-appreciated guard. During the 92-93 season, I think they truly were one of the best, and highest scoring guard combos.

PolkCityClone · 02-16-2008, 06:03 PM

I have SERIOUS doubts about cylcone42. JP, don't listen to him.

gocubs2118 · 02-16-2008, 06:08 PM

What a second half. We pretty much did today without Wesley. I am going to give the game ball to one Sean Huluska. Coming up with big shot after big shot.