Let's all relax

kingcy · 02-18-2008, 07:19 PM

What gets me Logicalfan is you just joined his site and you have spent 50 posts ripping on McD. You look for every and anything to rip on him about. When we defend him and have points to defend him with you get upset and find something else to rip into him on. You say you went to UNI with him, did he do something to you to make you not like him? If it is a personal issue you have with him dont bring it here. If you really think he isnt a good basketball coach, we get your point. All we are trying to do is help you get back from the ledge. Most of us agree, it is way to earily to judge him. Sometimes you have to tear it down before you can build it back up.

jahfg · 02-18-2008, 07:25 PM

Originally Posted by ISUFan22

Which is exactly what his goal was, throw darts at the issue to create discourse, rather than a logical discussion. We've seen this game before.

Instead of wrestling with the pig (when you do so, you get dirty and the pig likes it) - just ignore it and/or play along.

It's a lot more funnerest.

I know exactly what you are saying. I just can't resist.

jahfg · 02-18-2008, 07:30 PM

Originally Posted by cyclone#1

I agree with this...especially in basketball.

The coach should not be directing players where to go or where to pass as the game is occurring...there is something wrong with that. A good coach drills his team and then pretty much let's them play.

He controls substitution patterns during the game so that guys that are putting forth the requisite effort, guys that are having a good night, or guys that are a match-up advantage are in the game as needed. He should also ensure that good out of bounds plays are called coming out of time outs. He should alternate defenses to keep the opponent off balance. He should utilize timeouts to help keep the game in control. That is the type of stuff the coach should be involved with...not directing players where to stand and where to pass.

So you are saying there is something wrong when a coach yells instructions during a game? I understand what you are getting at but there is nothing wrong with a coach yelling instructions. It is a natural thing to do, especially as a coach. Not everyone is Phil Jackson. Just because GM yells instructions occasionally doesn't mean he is somehow not practicing good coaching habits. But if that is what you believe, you should take that down to him and tell him how he should be coaching. After all, I'm sure you have a better idea on what makes a good coach than he does. I'm sure he will be very receptive to your ideas.

To be honest, reversing the ball and making skip passes should be something that these guys were taught in high school. It should be second nature. If it isn't, they really lack an understanding of the game.

isucyfan · 02-18-2008, 07:38 PM

Originally Posted by Logicalfan

Z,

Who has said anything about changing coaches??? I haven't, and I think that there is no way there should be a change.

I'm glad you agree McDermott should be given time. Comparing it to our football program, it would be like McCarney being fired after his first couple of seasons. He didn't inherit much from the previous coach, and took our program to new heights. I'm grateful he was given time and didn't become the victim of a knee-jerk reaction from administration and fans.

necromancy · 02-18-2008, 07:59 PM

Good Lord. It sure will be nice when we're winning and getting to the tourney again.

cyclonenum1 · 02-18-2008, 08:21 PM

Originally Posted by jahfg

So you are saying there is something wrong when a coach yells instructions during a game? I understand what you are getting at but there is nothing wrong with a coach yelling instructions. It is a natural thing to do, especially as a coach. Not everyone is Phil Jackson. Just because GM yells instructions occasionally doesn't mean he is somehow not practicing good coaching habits. But if that is what you believe, you should take that down to him and tell him how he should be coaching. After all, I'm sure you have a better idea on what makes a good coach than he does. I'm sure he will be very receptive to your ideas.

To be honest, reversing the ball and making skip passes should be something that these guys were taught in high school. It should be second nature. If it isn't, they really lack an understanding of the game.

Do you not see the difference in occassionally yelling instructions as, say Coach K does, and having your coach up telling the players where to stand and where to pass the ball as an earlier poster stated as his way of trying to tell us that "McDermott is really coaching them up"?

cyclonenum1 · 02-18-2008, 08:24 PM

Originally Posted by isucyfan

I'm glad you agree McDermott should be given time. Comparing it to our football program, it would be like McCarney being fired after his first couple of seasons. He didn't inherit much from the previous coach, and took our program to new heights. I'm grateful he was given time and didn't become the victim of a knee-jerk reaction from administration and fans.

Let me remind you that his winning % at ISU is slightly lower than Criner's and slightly higher than Walden's. These "new heights" you speak of were really a proliferation of lousy bowl games that allowed .500 (or slightly better) teams to "go bowling".

Logicalfan · 02-18-2008, 08:28 PM

Originally Posted by cyclone#1

Do you not see the difference in occassionally yelling instructions as, say Coach K does, and having your coach up telling the players where to stand and where to pass the ball as an earlier poster stated as his way of trying to tell us that "McDermott is really coaching them up"?

John Feinstien wrote a book with Red Auerbach called Let Me Tell You a Story, he has very pointed comments on coaches coaching for the cameras.

And as far as lack of understanding of the game goes, this isn't that streetball team everyone slams on here, this is a disciplined team that is being coached by a coach that stresses discipline.

Now maybe they have performance anxiety in front of large crowds, I don't know. Maybe we should get them all enrolled in drama classes, it might help. Then Greg can tell them to act their way through a called offensive set.

isucyfan · 02-18-2008, 08:28 PM

Originally Posted by cyclone#1

Let me remind you that his winning % at ISU is slightly lower than Criner's and slightly higher than Walden's. These "new heights" you speak of were really a proliferation of lousy bowl games that allowed .500 (or slightly better) teams to "go bowling".

Understood. But I believe he left the program much better than he found it, which now Chizik can build upon.

Ficklone02 · 02-18-2008, 08:31 PM

Well....it was an interesting discussion when I made a comment four pages ago, but I'm out, I don't think I can take this any longer. Good luck to everybody in there arguments. :) Oh, and go cyclones.

jahfg · 02-18-2008, 08:52 PM

Originally Posted by cyclone#1

Do you not see the difference in occassionally yelling instructions as, say Coach K does, and having your coach up telling the players where to stand and where to pass the ball as an earlier poster stated as his way of trying to tell us that "McDermott is really coaching them up"?

Yes, I do see the difference. Do you see the difference in the talent level the two are coaching? A lot of Duke's players are good because they are superb athletes and have a great understanding of the game. We don't have that luxury. I maintain that there is nothing wrong with instructing your players during the game. Obviously, the bulk of the coaching should be done in practice. Nothing earth shattering there.

Clone_12 · 02-18-2008, 09:22 PM

The Drake game was unnacceptable, and the first half of the Nebraska game was unnacceptable...but this team is performing at about the best level that should be expected when you consider the circumstances, and that to me spells coaching (not underachieving)...if you told me before the year started that we'd be playing 3 walk-ons in our backcourt i'd tell you that we were a last place team...we're in 8th place (nothing to brag about, but definately not underachieving)...a lot of coaches would not be able to get an 8th place finish in this conference under the circumstances we are facing...i also don't see anyone saying Nebraska is a great team...they are a very bad team, but it's a conference win, and a win in which we saw significant changes coming out of the locker room after halftime (coaching)...that's also not the only time this year...texas our gameplan against Augustin was great, our gameplan to beat Missouri's press was phenominal and executed beautifully, and our gameplan to run with Purdue worked out pretty decent for us. Last year we took Kansas to ot with the likes of McIntosh, Taylor, Clark, and Hubalek...this guy knows the game, let him get his players (imo)...that being said, you certainly have the right to believe 11 points in a half is unnacceptable against anyone, or question why our posts shoot 3's with 30 seconds left on the shot clock.

zach · 02-18-2008, 09:23 PM

Originally Posted by Logicalfan

Z,

Who has said anything about changing coaches??? I haven't, and I think that there is no way there should be a change. My complaints are on how we play, not the wins and losses.

Now at some point in the next 2-3 years, it will be about the wins, but that isn't the case now. Now it's about playing correctly, and if you have seen that out of this team lately (the second half of the Nebraska game being the exception), then we may just differ on what fundamentals are, and that is fine.

Actually I was just blowing off steam and not directed at anyone in particular. However, your comments do have a unique tone....hmmmm...argumentative maybe. Regardless, my comments were just directed in general to the same topic time and time again....Groundhog Day.....Coach Mac does this wrong and this wrong...he should be doing this...how dare ISU only score 11 points...they should be running these plays, playing these guys....

Coach Mac has forgotten more about BB then any of us will really understand or ever know. That is not to say that we as fans are not knowledgeable, however, we are not even on the same level or game, pardon the pun.

However, I find it rather amusing how some people push and push a point to no avail about topics they really have no deep knowledge about as in this case, to where their comments have a sharp edge. I guess the sharp edge is perhaps what is old.

I appreciate the pashion many of us have, however, bashing our coaches and walk-ons...time and time again gets old. I would hope our bosses are more patient with all of us at work than we are with our own favorite College program. And I hope we are more patient and realistic with people in our own private lives.

I think we all have the same goal, some more realistic than others, however, lets stop eating our own. Rather support and give things time to develop and mature.

Finally, since you directed your comment to me in particular, there is more than one way to skin a cat, you just seem to be picking the most difficult manner. No disrespect meant on my part to anyone.

Z

Clone_12 · 02-18-2008, 09:26 PM

I don't believe any of the McDermott backers are following him blindly...I am basing my opinion on gameplans this guy has come up with against talented teams, his track record, and the player development I've seen first hand under him...I credit all of these things to good coaching...I agree that sometimes our offense definately doesn't look disciplined, but I still believe McD will do good things...you don't have to agree with me, but that's my opinion (which I hardly call blind loyalty).

Clone_12 · 02-18-2008, 09:36 PM

I also had to laugh at the comment earlier on us missing out on recruits (which was followed by the person saying that it shows the direction the program is heading)...every college team in the nation besides the likes of UCLA, Duke, and UNC misses out on the majority of recruits they go after, and they always have...the only difference is you hear more about the misses these days than you ever used to because of internet message boards, talk radio, etc...I'd have a VERY difficult time ripping on Greg's recruiting so far as in only a year and a month he has landed Wesley Johnson, Craig Brackins, and Diante Garrett...I am also very excited to see some of the other guys he has coming in...we'd pry be a much better team with Appleton than without him, but the majority of the time, recruiting battles are lost when it's against multiple schools (not just by ISU, but by everyone)