McDermott's offense

Seth · 02-19-2008, 03:09 PM

I'm also hopeful that as we go on from year to year, we'll be starting fewer and fewer freshmen. Ideally, guys will get a year or two under their belts before they see the court, so they can pick up the system and mature physically. I think next year will be the first year we really start to see this.

scottie33 · 02-19-2008, 03:09 PM

Originally Posted by snowcraig2.0

McDermott's offense is totally predicated on set plays. What this means is our players, especially the point guard, need to be able to come down the court, recognize the defense, and the run the correct set. This is different from a motion based offense where in essence the same movements are used every time down (varying on zone vs man to man). For instance, say we are coming down the floor, and Rahshon has a guy who is only 6' guarding him, Diante or Petey needs to immediately recognize this and go into the appropriate set to take advantage. Eventually the entire team should recognize this and just go into the set without the PG even calling it. The problem right now is that Diante isn't on that level with his knowledge of the game. Listen when Diante bring the ball up, you can hear the coaches yelling 'DG, ....' to tell him what set to get the team into. Petey is better with his knowledge of the offense, but still has a ways to go to get to that instinctive mode rather than having to think about it. He also lacks the physical ability to sometimes get the ball into the proper places to run the appropriate set.

My point of this post is to illustrate why it take Greg's teams on average of 3 years to 'get it'. It's not just getting the PG's to be able to run the team on instinct, it's really getting the whole team to know what they need to do. It's also why getting Appleton would be great, but not necessarily the answer to all our problems. Garrett 'getting it' is the key to next year, in my opinion. Hopefully Petey will get to a level that he can compensate for his athletic shortcoming with craftiness and his good shooting. Another thing that will be key for us to succeed with such a complicated offense is player retention. We absolutely have to keep guys like Boozer and Cory Johnson in the program to give us some veteran depth that understands the system, even if they are never going to be starters. If we can do that, next year could be pretty good.

Very good post and I agree wholeheartadly.

It is very similar to a quarterback in football, you are coming from a system maybe in high school where you had only 50 plays altogther. When you get to college there are 150-200 plays altogher possibly, I don't really know what they have in college. But not only when you come to college you have to learn that many plays, you need to be able to read the defense when you get to the line of scrimmage.

In the basketball case, maybe they only knew a certain amount of plays in highschool or even juco and then you come to ISU and you have to learn 150-200 sets or plays, and even on the run you need to realize teh defense taht the opposign team is in and run a set given the defense that you are against. With experience will come this, and I believe Lucca being around all year long with help next year, and even when EIK and whoever it is from Michigan, it's going to take them AWHILE to learn the sets also like it is taking our team.

JJ4ISU · 02-19-2008, 03:12 PM

I actually have a little different theory as to why the offense struggles at times, and I think it is more to do with the players executing it correctly. For example, I think sometimes our big guys don't post up hard enough, or make a big enough target for themselves, or meet the pass instead of waiting for it to get to them. I think our guards struggle to create any separation, and thus timing is thrown off on the set plays. I think, overall, it's lack of strength inside and a lack of quickness and/or ball handling skills with the guards that throws the timing off set plays. With time, these things should improve.

snowcraig2.0 · 02-19-2008, 03:13 PM

Originally Posted by scottie33

With experience will come this, and I believe Lucca being around all year long with help next year, and even when EIK and whoever it is from Michigan, it's going to take them AWHILE to learn the sets also like it is taking our team.

I agree. Their learning curve will be accelerated compared to DG though, as they will have some experienced guys to learn from. It's another reason why losing Mike Taylor was such a blow.

TravelingCY · 02-19-2008, 04:04 PM

You know, this thread got me to thinking. My friends and I go to every game and we've picked up the fact that more often then not, probably 90% of the time, Petey goes to the right and stops just outside of the 3-point line. Has anyone else spotted that?

It drives us nuts. As we've gotten deeper into the Big 12 season, I've noticed opposing teams really sell out and jump into our passing lanes.

Any coach can see that...supposedly McD has got over 100 set plays...are we really that behind in the learning process that we've maybe used a fraction of that number?

Am I the only one thinking this? Don't get me wrong. I love McD and look forward to the future. However, in the present, I'm losing my patience a bit.

jahfg · 02-19-2008, 04:29 PM

Originally Posted by TravelingCY

You know, this thread got me to thinking. My friends and I go to every game and we've picked up the fact that more often then not, probably 90% of the time, Petey goes to the right and stops just outside of the 3-point line. Has anyone else spotted that?

It drives us nuts. As we've gotten deeper into the Big 12 season, I've noticed opposing teams really sell out and jump into our passing lanes.

Any coach can see that...supposedly McD has got over 100 set plays...are we really that behind in the learning process that we've maybe used a fraction of that number?

Am I the only one thinking this? Don't get me wrong. I love McD and look forward to the future. However, in the present, I'm losing my patience a bit.

I would guess that the 200+ set plays (or however many) include a lot of variations of the same play. But that is just a guess.

CycloneTony · 02-19-2008, 04:29 PM

If Brian and diante were to somehow mate and create and offspring that would be one hell of a gaurd haha. The rest of the season just needs to focus on getting the ball to the bigs Jiri is great when he is on and we seem to get better looks when people head to the basket with the ball. Ive seen Rahshon and DG do it a few times and were able to draw fouls or get a chance for a tough bankshot.

TravelingCY · 02-19-2008, 07:20 PM

Certainly there are many variations, and we've seen those with high screens, double screens down low, etc. However, to start each series, pay attention to where Petey goes after crossing the half court line. Because of that, watch the opposing guard shadowing him... You'll see what I'm talking about.

Bobber · 02-19-2008, 08:17 PM

Guard play is important to both styles of offense. Unfotunatly we have guards now who tend to turn the ball over and really aren't consistent threats shooting anywere on the outside. That's a recipe for disaster no matter what style of offense you run.

Get a good floor general who doesn't turn over, and that's 50% of the game ie: Jamal Tinsley.

Enginerd · 02-19-2008, 11:06 PM

I appreciate this thread and the original post and I am hoping you are right on the money. I think that is why my biggest gripe with last year's and at times this year's offensive philosophy is letting one player jack up ill advised shots early in the shot clock without even trying (or at least not in appearance trying) to run an offense or play. Run the system/play and learn it. Some of those shots you can get anytime you want them. I encourage McDermott to take advantage of his honeymoon and put his system in place.

cyclonenum1 · 02-19-2008, 11:15 PM

FYI...solid guard play from your primary ball handler is a critical component of playing quality BB on the collegiate level no matter what type of "system" the coach is running.

Ficklone02 · 02-19-2008, 11:58 PM

They don't say guard play wins postseason games for nothing.....I look forward to having more experienced and talented guards. Who knows if that will cure all of our ills, as we have many needs. To be honest, I'm not a big fan of an offense primarily run on set plays....I really like the motion offense, but we will see what happens in due time.

Oldgeezer · 02-20-2008, 10:07 AM

All this offense talk is very enlightening, but until we get some defensive players with some guts and some re bounders that actually go after the ball, we will continue to struggle. Megan Taylor was 5' 7" but she could out rebound Hubalek, because she had an instinct for rebounding, i.e. she knew where the rebound would go when the shot went up. And who besides Alex Thompson on this team has ever taken a charge?

Bobber · 02-20-2008, 10:10 AM

Originally Posted by Oldgeezer

All this offense talk is very enlightening, but until we get some defensive players with some guts and some re bounders that actually go after the ball, we will continue to struggle. Megan Taylor was 5' 7" but she could out rebound Hubalek, because she had an instinct for rebounding, i.e. she knew where the rebound would go when the shot went up. And who besides Alex Thompson on this team has ever taken a charge?

Hmmm. I've been thinking our defense is one of the better parts or our game this year. It's certainly improved since the Morgan years. However, point well taken. Other then Rahshan, rebouding has been medicore and few charges taken.

Offense is even weaker however...

snowcraig2.0 · 02-20-2008, 10:13 AM

Geezer,

Big 12 Conference - Official Athletic Site

We are 3rd in the conference in field goal percentage defense and 6th in points allowed. The defense is fine.

We are sixth in rebounding as well, but only 9th in rebounding margin. You are correct, our rebounding needs work, for sure.

But, if you want to know the biggest problem with this team, take a look at field goal percentage and see where we rank. Dead last.