Is it fair to have some doubts about McD at this point?

URBCLONE · 05-19-2008, 09:03 PM

Let me just state upfront that I think GM is a "good guy" and a class act. That said I had my doubts about the hire at the time and the last two years haven't exactly done a lot to erase them. I think the big question that everyone had when GM was hired was if he could recruit at a Big Twelve level. Outside of Brackins, Wesley, Diante and Buckley, I have to still wonder if this is not a legitimate concern.

Fans were rightly concerned with the attrition during the LE years and then the loose ship that was run during the WM years. Nonetheless, you can run the most structured system in the world and "coach them up" to the best of your ability and it does not matter if the talent is not there to begin with. I have tried to remain objective and to maintain a wait and see attitude, but the last two years have been brutal. There is a level of apathy in Hilton Coliseum that I have not seen in 25 years of following ISU basketball. At some point the turnover in players has to cease and a new crop of high D-1 talent has to be brought in each year. IMHO part of recruiting lies in keeping the players after you've landed them on campus. This staff has a record of attrition equal to the worst excesses of the LE era. Tough times for ISU BB and I sincerely hope that worse does not lie ahead.

ISUKyro · 05-19-2008, 09:06 PM

Tough times do make thoughts spin through the head. Before I jump in either direction I'll be waiting for Wednesday when McD has his press release. Would also like to hear/ read a statement from WJ too.

vanillathrilla · 05-19-2008, 09:08 PM

I have no problem with McD when it comes to the person he is. However, when you lose your best player, along with all the other turnover (I don't care if they were make-shift teams), there is cause for concern and questioning.

tyler24 · 05-19-2008, 09:09 PM

I understand completely that people are going to have their doubts in Mac because he has lost two very valuable players to ISU, but I truly dont have doubts in him because he came here to build a team and not to build individuals and that is what he had to do his first years just to get some kind of talent into a struggling big 12 team. I am optimistic on next year only because we dont have a leader now since we lost Wesley, but I still think Mac will get done what needs to get done soon to show us what the future of Iowa State basketball is gonna be all about!

tim_redd · 05-19-2008, 09:13 PM

I'll just say that I bet Gmac thinks this job is little bit tougher than a Mo. Valley job, as well as a bit tougher than he thought it would be. I think the biggest knock on him is he doesn't really have experience on any level in big-time college basketball.

CrossCyed · 05-19-2008, 09:13 PM

What bothers me is the Mac apologists. I understand liking the guy, but I really think other coaches would have been more critical of what has happened.

I still think he gets the length of his contract to make progress, but it's not unreasonable to be disheartened by how the first two years have gone.

We were sold on him because he was supposed to stabilize and rebuild the basketball program. Progress has to happen in the next couple of years.

FWIW, I just have a gut feeling that this will probably be the last offseason of mass defections.

jtd9046 · 05-19-2008, 09:15 PM

Originally Posted by CrossCyed

FWIW, I just have a gut feeling that this will probably be the last offseason of mass defections.

Due to the players that will be on board?

Or is your gut telling you this will continue and a coaching change will have to be made?

ISUFan22 · 05-19-2008, 09:16 PM

Originally Posted by CrossCyed

What bothers me is the Mac apologists.

You should admit you didn't like the guy from Day 1 - so calling out Mac apologists is a bit unfair.

I am growing quite concerned with the defections and IMO, it is certainly just to take a hard look at the staff and wonder why this is happening.

URBCLONE · 05-19-2008, 09:17 PM

Originally Posted by CrossCyed

What bothers me is the Mac apologists. I understand liking the guy, but I really think other coaches would have been more critical of what has happened.

Question... Does anyone else out there wonder how things might have turned out had JP hired Rob Jeter instead. That would have sent GM to KSU. No Bill Walker or Beasley for KSU. Possibly less attrition in the transition from WM to RJ, possibly better targeting of players given Jeter's experience with Wisc???? I know that you can't look back and that Jeter hasn't exactly torn it up at UW-M the last couple of years, but still....

HawkHater · 05-19-2008, 09:17 PM

Yes, I think you have to have doubts at this point. He ran off several at UNI as well. Being a disciplinarian and a taking it to a point where the players will not play for you is a fine line. At UNI he found Gruber at Kirkwood, Morningside dropped BBall and he got another gaurd. He had a kid transfer in from Ball State and his prize recruit was Jacobsen who proved to be a decent player. He then took in McKowen who nobody wanted, but the kid was a winner. These kids were tough, nobody wanted them and they bought into the team concept he was preaching. This kind of rag tag stuff can work at UNI but it will not in the big 12 night in and night out.
Johnson(and others) leaving is just a bad deal. Losing the players you inherit is one thing but these were his recruits. This is just not excusable in my opinion. I do not think the departures are over and I do think this will probably be the beginning of the end for McD.

CycloneTony · 05-19-2008, 09:18 PM

For me its still to early ( I know im slow) but i will have major doubts if this next season is another crapper

CrossCyed · 05-19-2008, 09:19 PM

Originally Posted by jtd9046

Due to the players that will be on board?

Or is your gut telling you this will continue and a coaching change will have to be made?

Due to the players. The guys you've seen leave are either Morgan's, or the spring recruits that are always question marks. I see Mac here through his contract at the very least.

Originally Posted by ISUFan22

You should admit you didn't like the guy from Day 1 - so calling out Mac apologists is a bit unfair.

I am growing quite concerned with the defections and IMO, it is certainly just to take a hard look at the staff and wonder why this is happening.

I'd felt I'd been pretty upfront about not being a fan of the hire (as much as I have been a fan of the Chizik hire).

However, I think I've been pretty fair as far as saying that I could change with success. My want of success for ISU far outweighs any personal issues I have with any coach.

URBCLONE · 05-19-2008, 09:22 PM

Originally Posted by CrossCyed

I'd felt I'd been pretty upfront about not being a fan of the hire (as much as I have been a fan of the Chizik hire).

However, I think I've been pretty fair as far as saying that I could change with success. My want of success for ISU far outweighs any personal issues I have with any coach.

Great summary!!! That is exactly the way I feel as well.

CrossCyed · 05-19-2008, 09:25 PM

Originally Posted by CycloneTony

For me its still to early ( I know im slow) but i will have major doubts if this next season is another crapper

Um, if next season is anything but a lower third finish in the conference, we should probably be pretty impressed.

Originally Posted by URBCLONE

Great summary!!! That is exactly the way I feel as well.

I was put off initially because I thought the coaching search was rushed. I wasn't overly disheartened to be changing coaches, but I think that there were boosters in JP's ears that wanted to get Mac before Iowa did (that's just pure speculation on my part), and that we didn't conduct as good of a search as we could have.

URBCLONE · 05-19-2008, 09:30 PM

Originally Posted by CrossCyed

I wasn't overly disheartened to be changing coaches, but I think that there were boosters in JP's ears that wanted to get Mac before Iowa did (that's just pure speculation on my part), and that we didn't conduct as good of a search as we could have.

Same here. I was fired up by the prospect of the hire of Rob Jeter (sorry for repeating an earlier post), but after a while I was willing to wait and see with GM. I am just concerned based on the evidence of the last couple of years + the attrition that he is not going to be able to cut it at a BCS school.