Missouri....why not ISU?

**jdoggivjc** · 02-05-2009, 10:14 AM

Originally Posted by cyco2000

Really? I've never once seen that mentioned on here, not even by num1.

I think the general sentiment is, we haven't had more than three years in a row without making a postseason tournament until this coach. That includes NIT, NCAA, whichever round. Right now, we're not doing that. And, it doesn't seem like we're close to postseason.

Do you really think the program in year 3 of McD is no worse than any of the previous coaches' year 2?

That is the deal here. Dragging down previous coaches and their accomplishments, no matter how minor in your eyes, does nothing but make what McD has done here look even worse.

It has nothing to do with dragging down past accomplishments - it has to do with the wearing of "cardinal-colored" glasses when looking at those past accomplishments and projecting them onto the present and into the future. This program has not had to do a complete start over since Orr first took over this program - there has always been at least some sense of continuity from one coach to the next. That ended with the firing of Morgan, the hiring of McDermott, and the mass defections that ensued. Yet somehow McDermott also gets to take the blame for that as well.

**cyco2000** · 02-05-2009, 10:15 AM

Originally Posted by CyBobby

Whats the NCAA tourney?? Its been so long since ISU's been there I cant remember....

I thought if you're an Iowa school, you have to be in the MVC to make it. Is that not right?

**jdoggivjc** · 02-05-2009, 10:17 AM

Originally Posted by jbhtexas

JO left with an overall winning record, a winning record in his last season, and left a team with enough talent for the next coach to move to the next level.

DM left with an overall losing record, a losing last season, and left a team with questionable talent.

Orr also got to coach 20-30 games a year, about the first half of those games against far inferior teams. McCarney got to coach 11-12 games a year, 3 of those being against far inferior teams. Easy to see why Orr has a winning record and McCarney has a losing one.

**CycloneWanderer** · 02-05-2009, 10:18 AM

Did someone seriously ask for a timeline for patience? You are impatient to be impatient? Can I get a price-check on silliness?

**tamjam** · 02-05-2009, 10:22 AM

ISU had senior leadership last year in Jiri and Rahshon and still they weren't any good. Oh, sorry, I forgot, McD failed to keep any guards on his team though and apparently it takes 4 years for his own players to learn his system.

**jbhtexas** · 02-05-2009, 10:25 AM

Originally Posted by jdoggivjc

Yep, a mere 18 games over .500 with more than 400 games coached. McDermott is a mere 2 games under .500 with 84 games coached. If McDermott goes on to have a winning season next year he blows past Orr for all time winning percentage. Does that make McDermott more "legendary" than Orr at that point? Didn't think so. Next argument...

First of all, let's not jump the gun. Depending on how this season turns out, McDermott may need a rather spectacular season next year to get above .500 for his career at ISU.

Also, JO had 6 NCAA tourney appearances and 1 NIT appearance, which also makes him rather unique among ISU BB coaches. It's unlikely that GM is going to top that next year...

**cyco2000** · 02-05-2009, 10:26 AM

Originally Posted by tamjam

ISU had senior leadership last year in Jiri and Rahshon and still they weren't any good. Oh, sorry, I forgot, McD failed to keep any guards on his team though and apparently it takes 4 years for his own players to learn his system.

I've heard the same about taking time to learn the system.

Colvin won't be able to grasp the system for at least 2 years (see Buckley, DG, etc.). But, wait until next year...

**cyclonepower** · 02-05-2009, 10:26 AM

Mike has done a great job with Mizzou this year. It helps when you get big-time transfers to come to your program like Carroll from Vandy (Mike's nephew) and Zaire (Sp) Taylor both have made major impacts. Compared to us where our best players ends up leaving every year.

**jdoggivjc** · 02-05-2009, 10:27 AM

Originally Posted by jbhtexas

First of all, let's not jump the gun. Depending on how this season turns out, McDermott may need a rather spectacular season year to get above .500 for his career at ISU.

You're absolutely right. He could lose his next 10 games and be sitting -12 for his career at ISU. He could also win his next 10 games and reenergize the fan base (unlikely). He could also land right on the .500 mark. We just don't know yet

Originally Posted by jbhtexas

Also, JO had 6 NCAA tourney appearances and 1 NIT appearance, which also makes him rather unique among ISU BB coaches. It's unlikely that GM is going to top that next year...

Credit deserved for Orr.

Then again, McDermott could have made postseason births every year he has coached here and still would not have achieved that mark...

**cycloneworld** · 02-05-2009, 10:37 AM

Originally Posted by sloaner

ISU Senior Class:

Thompson = Walk on/Transfer from Iowa 5th year in College
Peterson = Walk on
Haluska = Walk on

ISU Junior Class

Vanderbeaken = Juco Transfer

Mizzou's Senior Class

Anderson = Walk on/UAB transfer (Coach is his Dad) 5th year in College
Lyons = 4th year at Mizzou
Carroll = Transfer from Vanderbilt (2 years at Vandy) 2nd year at Mizzou
Lawrence = 4th year at Mizzou

Mizzou's Junior Class

Tiller = 3rd year in system
Taylor = Transfer
Ramsey = Juco Transfer

Basically Thompson is the only player at ISU with more than a year and a half experience in the system. Junior and Senior Classes are not filled with 4 year players.

This is the answer to the original question of why Missouri is doing what they are doing.

As for McDermott, he may or may not get it done here. But he isn't going to be fired after this year so I'm going to support him. Personally I am willing to give him through next year. If next year is more of the same, I will be first in line saying he needs to be fired.

Too many people these days think the solution to everything is firing the coach. There were rumblings with Chizik after only 2 years and there are rumblings of McDermott after 2.75 years. What would we accomplish by firing Mac after this season? More instability? A 1% chance at Harrison Barnes? More transfers?

**jdoggivjc** · 02-05-2009, 10:40 AM

Originally Posted by cycloneworld

This is the answer to the original question of why Missouri is doing what they are doing.

As for McDermott, he may or may not get it done here. But he isn't going to be fired after this year so I'm going to support him. Personally I am willing to give him through next year. If next year is more of the same, I will be first in line saying he needs to be fired.

Too many people these days think the solution to everything is firing the coach. There were rumblings with Chizik after only 2 years and there are rumblings of McDermott after 2.75 years. What would we accomplish by firing Mac after this season? More instability? A 1% chance at Harrison Barnes? More transfers?

I highly doubt he's fired after next year as well. I think 2011 is the litmus test.

**jbhtexas** · 02-05-2009, 10:43 AM

Originally Posted by jdoggivjc

Orr also got to coach 20-30 games a year, about the first half of those games against far inferior teams. McCarney got to coach 11-12 games a year, 3 of those being against far inferior teams. Easy to see why Orr has a winning record and McCarney has a losing one.

Or maybe, the reason JO had a winning record at ISU is because he was a pretty darn good head coach throughout his carrer. To back up my claim that JO was a pretty darn good head coach, I enter into evidence his record at ISU, his 209-113 record at Michican, and his 15-9 record at UMass. It is hard for me to believe that one could end up as the winningest coach at two major conference schools by not being a good coach.

If you want to champion the argument that DM was a pretty darn good coach at 56-85 in his only head coaching gig, then go for it.

**jdoggivjc** · 02-05-2009, 10:45 AM

Originally Posted by jbhtexas

Or maybe, the reason JO had a winning record at ISU is because he was a pretty darn good head coach throughout his carrer. To back up my claim that JO was a pretty darn good head coach, I enter into evidence his record at ISU, his 209-113 record at Michican, and his 15-9 record at UMass. It is hard for me to believe that one could end up as the winningest coach at two major conference schools by not being a good coach.

If you want to champion the argument that DM was a pretty darn good coach at 56-85 in his only head coaching gig, then go for it.

But yet he never had the same success here as he had at those other places.

Contrary to what you might think, I do respect what Orr did here. What he did here is the whole reason why we're having this argument right now. I just don't think his ISU resume warrants me treating him with "God-like" status that most ISU fans seem to want to treat him with.

**GeronimusClone** · 02-05-2009, 10:47 AM

Originally Posted by jbhtexas

Or maybe, the reason JO had a winning record at ISU is because he was a pretty darn good head coach throughout his carrer. To back up my claim that JO was a pretty darn good head coach, I enter into evidence his record at ISU, his 209-113 record at Michican, and his 15-9 record at UMass. It is hard for me to believe that one could end up as the winningest coach at two major conference schools by not being a good coach.

If you want to champion the argument that DM was a pretty darn good coach at 56-85 in his only head coaching gig, then go for it.

Give up, making legit points with this cat is futile.

**j4state** · 02-05-2009, 11:00 AM

Originally Posted by jdoggivjc

I highly doubt he's fired after next year as well. I think 2011 is the litmus test.

Until he piles up a whole bunch more excuses and people are lining up to put baby powder on his ***. Next thing you know he will be here 8 years and have nothing to show for it but excuses.

Show me something beyond the expectations, just once! Beat a ranked team, take a conference opponent to the woodshed, pile up a 3 or 4 game conference winning streak, have some young guys make an immediate positive impact. Something to give us some hope is all I ask.