Worst 3 Yr Span For MBB & FB In ISU History

**Aclone** · 02-22-2009, 10:07 PM

Originally Posted by MontyBurns

We would be better next year without Brackins?

Just when you think you've read it all on this board...

Monty, have a clue. It's been all over this board that athleticism will be vastly improved with Gilstrap, Colvin, and Pomlee, and Christopherson is a polished player.

If Brackins is gone, and Gilstrap averages so much as 15 ppg and 7 rpg, that leaves three other new players to make up the other 5ppg and 3 rpg--not even counting the continued improvement of the other players.

That, by definition, is improvement.

**cyphan** · 02-22-2009, 10:07 PM

Originally Posted by Aclone

Again, W-L is not the sole determining factor. For example, there will likley be more talent on the football team than any time since Earle Bruce's last recruiting class. That's progress. Real progress.

And basketball apears to have stopped the bleeding (WJ was one last hemorrhage), and turned recruiting around in a big way. Also progress.

Soon it will be shown on both field and court in the W-L column--which is always the last place that progress is demonstrated.

I understand we've got better talent on the football field, but what good does the upgrade in talent do for us if we don't win? I think Coach Rhoads will get it done, but we may continue to regress while we implement new systems for our players. Throw in a killer schedule the next 2 years following this season and it's a reason to be concerned.

In year 3 of GMac's tenure, I would expect we could do better than what we are. I understand recruiting is getting better, but he was left a pretty bare cupboard when he arrived and had his best season with a bunch of misfit pieces in McIntosh, Taylor, etc. Let's see what CB does before you say we've stopped the hemorrhaging.

What good does the upgrade in facilities do if we don't win to bring in the fans to fill it or the recruits they attract don't win?

I'm not asking for league titles, I'm asking for improvement. I agree that W-L is not everything. I agree that W-L is the last thing to come. But must it take so long to turn things around? While I understand Tim Floyd stepped into a different situation at ISU, he was able to replace 95% of scoring and rebounding from one year to the next and win us a Big 8 tourney title. I'm not sure GMac needs 6 years to get it done. I would hope we could see significant improvement next year in basketball. Beating Drake and UNI, winning 6 league games, making the NIT. All realistic expectations for a coach in Year 4 of a tenure.

**Go2Guy** · 02-22-2009, 10:08 PM

Originally Posted by Aclone

I'll try to make this clear.

A. The programs had already deteriorated.

.

I don't want to get into a p***** match with you; I just have the personal opinion that our MBB program had begun to unravel under the last two years of LE, and Morgan had it stabilized and on the road to improvement; to the point that I felt Pollard pulled the trigger way too soon.

If there was something Pollard didn't like and wanted to change, I felt he should have drafted some performances objectives and told WM he must abide, or his contract would be in jeopardy.

**alaskaguy** · 02-22-2009, 10:11 PM

Originally Posted by Aclone

I'll try to make this clear.

A. The programs had already deteriorated.

B. The programs aren't deteriorating, they are now stabilized, and indeed, in the process of and on the verge of improving.

Evaluating solely on the basis of W-L, without considering all underlying factors, is shortsighted at best.

Like marrying a woman solely for her bra size.

And they have continued to deteriorate under JP.

I don't know how much worse the football and basketball programs can get at this point so if they have stabilized, that is not what I would consider to be good news.

**Aclone** · 02-22-2009, 10:12 PM

Originally Posted by cyphan

I think Coach Rhoads will get it done, but we may continue to regress while we implement new systems for our players.

I don't expect regression, with so many offensive starters back, and Herman's system similar to the '08 offense. It may take a few games to completely mesh, but not regression. As a matter of fact, I don't see it possible to be worse on offense than we were early last season.

In year 3 of GMac's tenure, I would expect we could do better than what we are.

We should be. And would be, had WJ not left.

**Go2Guy** · 02-22-2009, 10:12 PM

Originally Posted by cyphan

I'm not asking for league titles, I'm asking for improvement. I agree that W-L is not everything. I agree that W-L is the last thing to come. .

I'm with you. What concerns me is how we are getting beat in the 2nd half - it seems opposing coaches are making some excellent adjustments and can get their team to separate from us in the second half. That and we just can't seem to put a team away when we have a lead. Those are coaching issues that I'm really concerned about.

**Steve** · 02-22-2009, 10:14 PM

Originally Posted by Aclone

I'll try to make this clear.

A. The programs had already deteriorated.

B. The programs aren't deteriorating, they are now stabilized, and indeed, in the process of and on the verge of improving.

Evaluating solely on the basis of W-L, without considering all underlying factors, is shortsighted at best.

Like marrying a woman solely for her bra size.

Now you have me confused. Are you saying that instead of hiring someone from the "A" list, we should go after someone from the "C" or "D" list?

**cyphan** · 02-22-2009, 10:19 PM

Originally Posted by Aclone

I don't expect regression, with so many offensive starters back, and Herman's system similar to the '08 offense. It may take a few games to completely mesh, but not regression. As a matter of fact, I don't see it possible to be worse on offense than we were early last season.

We should be. And would be, had WJ not left.

And if CB leaves next year, are we going to be using that as an excuse if we win 4 games or less during the conference next year? Even tho we've upgraded our talent and athleticism with Colvin and Gilstrap? I'm done listening to excuses after the season, next year I expect to be better in both football and basketball than we were this year.

**Wesley** · 02-22-2009, 10:20 PM

Originally Posted by Aclone

I'll try to make this clear.

A. The programs had already deteriorated.

B. The programs aren't deteriorating, they are now stabilized, and indeed, in the process of and on the verge of improving.

Evaluating solely on the basis of W-L, without considering all underlying factors, is shortsighted at best.

Like marrying a woman solely for her bra size.

Good comment about the bra. The fball/bball program cannot deteriate much more from zero and two conference wins.

**Aclone** · 02-22-2009, 10:20 PM

Originally Posted by alaskaguy

And they have continued to deteriorate under JP.

Tell me how. Tell me how they have continued to deteriorate. Back it up with some facts and depth.

Had Mac stayed coach, we probably would have been 0-12 last fall. That's the direction the program was going, and how horrible recruiting had become. There was no life, no bright spot to draw talented recruits.

Basketball bottomed out before GMac coached a game, and now we have an all Big XII, potential lottery pick hopefully to add a couple of missing pices to, in players already signed, even enrolled. Tell me how that is "deteriorating".

Please. Go ahead. Just because you insist it's "deteriorating" foesn't make it so.

**Aclone** · 02-22-2009, 10:23 PM

Originally Posted by Go2Guy

Those are coaching issues that I'm really concerned about.

I didn't see any issues with coaching. I saw issues with guys not making shots. Had they made a few more, we win. Against a what, 18-5 team? It's as simple as that.

Well, g'night, all. I'm outta here--have a good night!

**CycloneJoe** · 02-22-2009, 10:24 PM

The freshman better be all everything because they will be all we have along with garrett

Brackins is gone! If he shocks the world and comes back I will be happy but I am not setting my self up for disappointment just like I full expect HB to play for Duke or NC I just hope not Kansas

**jdoggivjc** · 02-22-2009, 10:24 PM

Originally Posted by cyphan

And if CB leaves next year, are we going to be using that as an excuse if we win 4 games or less during the conference next year? Even tho we've upgraded our talent and athleticism with Colvin and Gilstrap? I'm done listening to excuses after the season, next year I expect to be better in both football and basketball than we were this year.

Gee whiz - I didn't realize we weren't supposed to take a chance on improving the basketball team by going after talent that might bolt after a year or two for the NBA. What are we supposed to do - go after lesser, possibly mediocre talent to ensure that they stick around all four years? Isn't that kind of where we're at right now - with mediocre talent?

**Wesley** · 02-22-2009, 10:24 PM

Many of the fans after the past three= five years will judge next years people when they produce on the court.

Right now CB is a 20 and 10. That is almost impossible to replace with anyone.

**Dolokaju** · 02-22-2009, 10:24 PM

Jamie Pollard's first 3 years: Football: 9-27, no bowl games; Basketball: 42-48, no NCAA's, no NIT's

Actually, Pollard was here during the 2005 season so you can add 7-5 though he did have remarkably little to do with that though I do recall after the 3-0 start, he gave Mac and extension