The Youth Excuse...

**tamjam** · 03-05-2009, 08:56 AM

Originally Posted by CYEATHAWK

Sometimes it just isn't a fit. There is nothing wrong with that. The coach at Creighton comes to mind. If I remember correctly......this conference ate him alive at K-State. Now look at him.....in GMac's old conference no less. All the back and forth aside.....it's up to the fans to see that enough is enough and not hold on for pride sake. Because I think our last coach could have done this bad.......well at least that was the rumor.

Great point on Altman. I think he's proof that coaching and winning in the MVC does not equate to coaching and winning in the Big 12. McD was a great coach at UNI, and I was excited when Pollard brought him here. If things don't change next year (and we have no reason to think they will) hopefully McD can get a good job at a lower conference school again.

**tamjam** · 03-05-2009, 08:58 AM

Originally Posted by BigBake

I'm not going to judge him as a coach until I see him coach a talented group of players. (and yes, that may never happen.)

Wouldn't a good coach be able to win at least a few games when he doesn't have a group of talented players. McD has yet to pull off any upsets.

**BigBake** · 03-05-2009, 09:01 AM

Originally Posted by tamjam

Wouldn't a good coach be able to win at least a few games when he doesn't have a group of talented players. McD has yet to pull off any upsets.

Agreed...but usually those wins come from a Senior laden team that hits a hot streak and knocks off a bigger power.

**BryceC** · 03-05-2009, 09:05 AM

Originally Posted by BigBake

I'm not going to judge him as a coach until I see him coach a talented group of players. (and yes, that may never happen.)

So as long as his players cannot compete, he is above judging? Awesome.

**cybsball20** · 03-05-2009, 09:10 AM

Originally Posted by BigBake

I'm not going to judge him as a coach until I see him coach a talented group of players. (and yes, that may never happen.)

Guess who's responsibility it is to get a talented group of players...

**Aclone** · 03-05-2009, 09:10 AM

Originally Posted by cyclonenum1

I find it insane that 65% of our fan base appears to be 110% in McDermott's camp with the results he has shown.

I may not be happy with current results, but that doesn't mean that I'm concerned about where the team is going. Not when the vast majoirty of a young team returns, and McDermott is signing guys like Gilstrap and Colvin, let alone the successding classes.

Here's one for you--a distinction between "reasons" and "Excuses". If you can't run the NY Marathon because someone chopped your leg off the night before, is that a "reason", or just an "excuse"?

WJ transferring at the eleventh hour was chopping McDermott's leg off. And not the only body part he's had chopped off.

**CyBobby** · 03-05-2009, 09:12 AM

Well Guys ..When a division one coach is losing, the standard operating procedure is to just make excuses...aka we're young but wait til next year or I'm recruiting these great guys and just wait til next year!!!

Do you get the point? Ever hear a div one coach say...I did a lousy job of recruiting and now Im paying the price? No you havent and you never will...Its always easier to just make up an excuse...AND KEEP ON LOSING!!!!!

go to the bank: greg mac is not leaving before Jamie Pollard!!!

**Aclone** · 03-05-2009, 09:14 AM

Originally Posted by CyBobby

go to the bank: greg mac is not leaving before Jamie Pollard!!!

Cool. Good point that in the long run, both will be retiring from Iowa State and being placed in the Cyclone Hall of Fame.

**KMAC_ATTACK** · 03-05-2009, 09:28 AM

Originally Posted by cyclonenum1

I just watched a Vanderbilt team that started a Freshman at the 1, a Junior at the 2, a Freshman at the 3, a Freshman at the 4, and a Sophomore at the 5 (that's 3 Freshmen, 1 Sophomore, and 1 Junior) beat a top 20 LSU team AT LSU. Further, their top two subs were a Freshman and a Sophomore. Their top seven is a rotation of 4 Freshmen, 2 Sophomores, and 1 Junior.

Vandy is 18-11 (7-8) with this youth filled line-up. Shouldn't they be 11-18 with all of this youth? According to what I read from many of you on this site...that is what you believe.

You forgot one big excuse - TALENT!!!!

Vanderbilts starting five
G - Jeffery Taylor (4* recruit)
G - Brad Tinsley (4* recruit)
G - Jermaine Beal (4* recruit)
F - Steve Tchiengang (4* recruit)
C - A.J. Ogilvy (4* recruit)

Subs
George Drake (4* recruit)
Lance Goulbourne (4* recruit)

the class that stallings signed last year was loaded 4 - 4* guys. This is not a flash in the pan, this is not some incredible coaching job. This is the results of great recruiting and good coaching. But talent trumps bad coaching and great coaching can trump inferior talent. One thing i think we've done over the past couple of years is settling for players or poor evaluations. Our staff needs to target better players and we're starting to see the results in our recruits.

I think our 2009 class even though its only 2 guys is one of the strongest we've ever signed as far as impact players. Both players are impact type players! If we look back at our 2006 and 2008 classes - how many of those guys are impact type players.
2006
Dodie Dunson - gone
Cory Johnson - gone
Wesley Johnson - impact player but gone.
Corey Mcintosh - gone
Michael Taylor - impact player but gone.

2007
Charles Boozer - nice role player, but not an impact player.
Craig Brackins - one of the best isu has ever had.
Marcus Brister - gone
Diante Garrett - nice player, developing but not yet an impact player.
Lucca Staiger - development hampered by NCAA, nice player but not currently a impact player.
Clayton Vette - gone.

2008
Dominique Buckley - playing sparingly, imo will be a nice pg behind colvin.
Wes Eikmeier - jury still out, rumors he may redshirt next year not a sign of impact player potential??
Justin Hamilton - diamond in the rough, not an impact player at this time.
Clinton Mann - limited playing time, will not be an impact player at this level.
L.A. Pomlee - redshirt, has tools to be a very good role player.
Jamie Vanderbeken - role player.

2009
Marquis Gilstrap - Impact player on the wing. After Wesleys departure, our 3 spot was a gapping hole. Gilstrap will fill it nicely next year and he will be fun to watch. Conference player of the year in the toughest juco conference in the nation so competition is good but not big 12 caliber.
Chris Colvin - smooth pg with over the top potential. Definite impact player potential. True point guard which is something this team needed. DG has played well but never see him as a true PG, more suited for the 2 spot. Don't be surprised if Colvin moves into the starting spot that DG may not be starting next year because there may be a better player at the 2 that can hit the outside shots.

Everything being written, if brackins is back and the infusion of Gilstrap, Colvin and Christopherson those are three guys that will greatly help this squad. In essence were losing Thompson, Petey and Haluska, and getting Colvin, Christopherson and Gilstrap. To me thats upgrading the talent and thats for me where the overall gap is between us and every other team in the big 12.

I'm giving Mac a mulligan on his first two recruiting classes. He's now starting to get into the doors of the guys that will help ISU turn around. I think the worst thing that could happen is for us to push a coaching change. With Mac finally understanding that the guys he was recruiting at UNI even though they could compete on a given night with a big ten or big twelve team, the uni team could not compete in either conference night in and night out. Coach Mac now has the guys in place that are truly building the overall talent level in Coach TJ and Coach Robinson our recruiting as well as our new practice facility is something that all ISU fans should be able to see is on the upswing. Its just that our talent and product on the court this year is not, and thats ok, because the program is moving upward even if the results are not quite there yet.

**BigBake** · 03-05-2009, 09:31 AM

Well said Kmac

**galactawitz** · 03-05-2009, 09:33 AM

Here's my winded reply to the post.

Cyclone basketball clearly isn't great right now. Why is that? In my mind, lack of talent, not lack of a quality coach. Brackins looks like a beast this year, but part of that to me is because of the major lack of talent around him. He really has to get it done, or we are done. Just look at last nights box score and it becomes clear, everyone else except maybe Lucca is out of their league. Even he would be a specialist on an upper tier team.

I think the only reason we've been close in some of the games this season is due to great in game coaching. Our talent level just isn't there to consistenly execut against superior teams. So the question to me is can we recruit the talent to execute. That will be the question of the next 2 years. So far Gmac has been hit by the perfect negative storm in losing most all of Morgans players, losing Taylor, Johnson etc. If we can keep our current roster, and add to the puzzle quality athletes the next 2 years, we will be back on the winning track. If we lose Brackins, and fail to bring in 2-3 people every year that can contribute right away, we are not going to advance. That simple.

**cybsball20** · 03-05-2009, 09:34 AM

Originally Posted by KMAC_ATTACK

the class that stallings signed last year was loaded 4 - 4* guys. This is not a flash in the pan, this is not some incredible coaching job.

I think that IS some incredible coaching...

**Cloned4Life** · 03-05-2009, 09:39 AM

Originally Posted by cyclonenum1

I just watched a Vanderbilt team that started a Freshman at the 1, a Junior at the 2, a Freshman at the 3, a Freshman at the 4, and a Sophomore at the 5 (that's 3 Freshmen, 1 Sophomore, and 1 Junior) beat a top 20 LSU team AT LSU. Further, their top two subs were a Freshman and a Sophomore. Their top seven is a rotation of 4 Freshmen, 2 Sophomores, and 1 Junior.

Vandy is 18-11 (7-8) with this youth filled line-up. Shouldn't they be 11-18 with all of this youth? According to what I read from many of you on this site...that is what you believe.

I can hear it now...

+ addendum excuse #1 - "but, but , but they have more BB tradition than we do at ISU...they just reload every year"...SORRY...NOT THE CASE.

+ addendum excuse #2 - "but, but , but they got lucky in recruiting and have this year's Kevin Durant, OJ Mayo, Michael Beasley...wait 'til that guy is gone next year"...SORRY...NOT THE CASE.

+ addendum excuse #3 - "but, but , but they get McD AA guys every year and we just can't at ISU"...SORRY...NOT THE CASE.

+ addendum excuse #4 - "but, but , but they get guys that want to come because of their big name coach and we don't have that at ISU"...SORRY...NOT THE CASE (Kevin Stallings is their coach in case you didn't know).

+ addendum excuse #5 - "but, but , but they have very low academic standards at Vandy...they let guys in that we just can't recruit at ISU because of this"...SORRY...NOT THE CASE.

+ addendum excuse #6 - "but, but, but Vandy is a FB power with a lot of $$ they can throw at the BB program to make things happen and we just can't do that at ISU"...SORRY...NOT THE CASE.

My point is simple...excuse making is for losers. I don't see Vandy making excuses because of their youth. At the very minimum, the Vandy program is equal to ISU in terms of hurdles that need to be overcome (and I actually think the ISU job is an easier job than Vandy in terms of these hurdles).

My old HS FB coach had it right..."excuses are like a--holes...everyone's got one and they all stink!"

Yes!! How DARE people have HOPE that year 4 can be the year!? What a bunch of losers!! Let's keep posting it over and over and over and show them how big of losers they are!! All they ever do is make excuses!! They must really want to keep losing...yes, that's it, they must want to keep losing...because they are losers!! Who would even dream of hope at a time like this!?

**Aclone** · 03-05-2009, 09:44 AM

Originally Posted by cybsball20

I think that IS some incredible coaching...

Yes. And the interesting thing is, with GMac's parallel fourth class he's about to have TWO four stars (when Gilstrap is upgraded) with the available two schollies.

**Aclone** · 03-05-2009, 09:49 AM

Originally Posted by KMAC_ATTACK

I'm giving Mac a mulligan on his first two recruiting classes.

Nice post.

The only problem with giving Mac a Mulligan means that to do so fails to give him credit for signing Taylor, WJ and CB--and credit should be given where due. It really can't be said that he can't recruit.