Mens Basketball Records

[BigBake]

and we'll expect the same old story after the player attrition after this season from you... its not coachs fault ever

Oh gee....please enlighten me on which player defection I claimed wasn't Mac's fault??

[coachdags]

My Expectation for Cyclone Mens Basketball is to make the NCAA Tournament every year and challenge for a Big 12 Conference Championship each year. I expect us to make deep runs in NCAA Tournament and make the Final Four at least once every 5 years. I do not think I am asking for to much.

Seriously......?

These expectations have never been realized in the over 100 years of ISU Mens Basketball. Would be kind of like finding the end of a rainbow (pot of gold) for any school.....?

Please tell me one "Elite" program that has met these expectations...? (maybe last 50 years, So they would have only had to go to 10 Final Fours..?)

P.S.....UCLA and John Wooden are not coming to Ames....

[BigBake]

Seriously......?

These expectations have never been realized in the over 100 years of ISU Mens Basketball. Would be kind of like finding the end of a rainbow (pot of gold) for any school.....?

Please tell me one "Elite" program that has met these expectations...?

I don't think Duke or Carolina have even come that close recently.

[CyDude16]

My Expectation for Cyclone Mens Basketball is to make the NCAA Tournament every year and challenge for a Big 12 Conference Championship each year. I expect us to make deep runs in NCAA Tournament and make the Final Four at least once every 5 years. I do not think I am asking for to much.

And i thought i posted some idiotic things...this one takes the cake.

[BigBake]

And i thought i posted some idiotic things...this one takes the cake.

Cake....heck this one almost takes the whole darn bakery rack.

[Mowilly]

The difference is that Floyd,Eustachy and Morgan didn't have the max exodus of players that McDermott had. Now I don't know if that was his fault or not but it's going to be interesting seeing this off season if Brackins stays and who else G Mac can get in to Ames in the 2010-11 season

I don't want to be that guy but this statement could not be more incorrect.
Jason Justus
Tyler Petersen
Carlo Walton
Shelby Walton
Lamont Sides
David Hickman
Joe Modderman
Derrick Hayes
Jason Kimbrough
Delvin Washington
Chris Ridens
Walter Moore
Jerry Curry
And I am forgetting a guard from Indian Hills.

That was on TF's watch and I am forgetting others I am sure. The 5/9 rule was named after Floyd due to his poor player retention.

Lamarr Gregg
Lee Love
Dwayne Johns
Brandon Hawkins
Shane Power
Tommy King
the late Zach Fortune
Tony Rampton (left early but I think he graduated)
Earnest Brown

I am forgetting more than this.

Losing players annually is part of college basketball. We need to deal with that fact. We do need to cut down on the attrition and GMAC's first class was not a group that the staff really had time to connect with. Losing players in that bunch was to be expected if you were realistic.

Hopefully, things will get better but we will lose players every year. It should be expected like death and taxes. You may hope for it to not happen but you are not being realisitic IMO.

[BigBake]

I think only the Elite programs see little loss of their top players for obvious reasons. Only players that will never see the court are leaving them programs.

[Bobber]

What a silly post once again. Tim Floyd get's Johnny Orr's players. Larry Eustachy gets Tim Floyd players. Greg McDermott get's Wayne Morgan players(2/3 who left a month after he was on the job) Who got dealt the best poker hand?

[Mowilly]

TF (Orr players, core players)
Hoiberg
Michalik
Meyer
Beechum
Jackson
Holloway
Kimbrough
Hayes
Modderman

Recruits; Hickman, Hebert, Edwards

LE (Floyd Players, core players)
Fizer
Shirley (RS)
Rancik
Rampton
Edwards
Nurse
Hampton

recruits; E. Brown (laugh), T. Watkins, Horton (LE recruited and RS him)

WM (core players)
Sully
Vroman
Homan
Jefferson

recruits; Stinson, Blalock (sp?), Staple (all signed by LE- yes I know WM re recruited them)

GMAC

Clark
Hubalek

recruits; C. Johnson (WM recruit) and a whole lot of guys I had never heard of (GMAC recruits)

I may have forgotten a few names but the other 3 guys inherited NBA and professional players and a strong core group.

Greg may have been able to do more to retain players- we will never know. What I do know is that he did not get as much inherited talent as the others did.

Feel free to make year three comparisons if you wish. I cannot refute the records of the others. I simply hope that we are on our way back to those days again.

I am going to Kelly's this weekend to celebrate my favorite week of the year.

Next year, I hope we are all there celebrating ISU wins in both tourneys!

[Clone5]

I know player retention has been the biggest problem but the thing that has bothered me the most during McDermott's tenure was the 2008 recruiting class. I know we need to give the guys time to develop but so far it looked like we were way off and you can't be that far off when you sign that many guys. Hate to be cynical but I'm just worried that the class will really handicap us in the future, especially since we've been getting some very good recruits.

[synapticwave]

My Expectation for Cyclone Mens Basketball is to make the NCAA Tournament every year and challenge for a Big 12 Conference Championship each year. I expect us to make deep runs in NCAA Tournament and make the Final Four at least once every 5 years. I do not think I am asking for to much.

Is this really what you expect? I'm not being facetious, I'm just asking? If this is really what you expect then I think you need to do a little research and put your expectations in check. There are only 6 teams in college basketball that have been in the final four more than 4 times in the last 28 years (Duke, UCLA, KU, UNC, MSU, Kentucky). And only 2 teams have actually been in a final four every 5 years over the last 25 years (Duke, UNC). And Duke gets knocked out of this club if they don't get to the final four this year.

So basically you EXPECT to be the top program in the country or maybe second behind UNC. I for one, do think you are asking for too much. WAY too much. Please don't put unrealistic expectations on the program and then blame coaches, players and ADs for not reaching them.

[candg4ever]

I agree - player retention is a huge concern regarding GMac. Remember, he brought in six players his first year - all six have left prior to their eligibility expiring...

And how much time did he have to recruit those players? That first year, it was most important to find players to put as good a team on the court as he could. He had to take what he could get at the time. He probably could have brought some of his UNI recruits with him, but he has what are referred to as morals and a conscious, something you see very little of these days. Sadly, after the fact, he found out and other players figured out that they weren't a very good fit for the program, so they looked for a better situation elsewhere.

[clone52]

Tim Floyd was 69-29 after 3 years with 3 NCAA Tournament Births including 2 second rounds and one sweet 16, Larry Eustachy was 72-26 after 3 years with 2 Big 12 Championships including A Elite 8 finish with 2 NCAA tournaments, Wayne Morgan was 55-39 after 3 years including a final 4 appearance in NIT and a 2nd round appearance in the NCAA Tournament., and Greg McDermott is 44-50 so far after 3 years with no post season appearances. Wayne Morgan was fired because his record was not good enough and that the Mens basketball program was supposed to be a elite program. GMACC gets a nine year contract. This does not add up. I think Pollard is going to run our program in the ground. The bottom line in this business is wins and losses.

Floyd came in and had a ultra-experienced squad that included 1 of the top 15 players all time at Iowa State. He think hit the transfer/juco jackpot and brought in 2 more of the top 15 all time players at Iowa State. He then went downhill for a couple of seasons, but looked to be turning it around with some stable high school recruiting.

Eustachy came in and had a team that included 1 of the top 15 players. Even with that player, the team stunk. Then he too hit the juco/transfer jackpot and picked up another top 15 all time player. After that, he went downhill for a couple seasons, but looked to be turning it around with some stable high school recruiting.

Morgan came in an inherited a team that included 1 of the top 15 players all time. He also inherited 2 freshman guards that probably would make the top 25-30 players all time at Iowa State. We didn't really give him the chance to let things go downhill, but it didn't seem to be headed in the right direction. If you think he was fired because he didn't take us to an elite level, you are crazy.

McDermott came in and inherited a team that included 3 players. Total. All three were post players. All good, but certainly not among the most talented ever. He tried the quick fix, but unlike Floyd and Eustachy, he didn't hit the jackpot. So after a year, he decided to turn things around with some stable high school talent. Results are yet to be determined.

Honestly, given the talent Floyd, Eustachy and Morgan inherited, they sure as hell should have started off fast. Floyd and Eustachy got really lucky with the transfer/juco right early as well. Floyd didn't get so lucky the next time he tried it. Eustachy made the right decision and decided it was probably a good idea to try and build a lasting program with mostly high school talent rather than go for the HR with a bunch of transfers/jucos. Morgan I think was just a personality/style difference with the boss. He recruited talent, but was undisciplined and was starting to have some turnover from out of the blue.

McDermott's start really isn't all that different than Floyd's or Eustachy's. He just wasn't able to hit the transfer/juco jackpot like Tim and Larry did. I'm sure the detractors will say that its the coach's job to find the talent and Mac failed. Even's god's gift to basketball Tim Floyd stunk it up with recruits like Jerry Curry, CJ Bruton, Ernest Brown and my personal favorite, Delvin Washington. It just goes to show you that even the best talent evaluators are going to make some mistakes. Heck even Morgan brought in Aaron Agnew, Robert Faulkner and Reggie "I drive a tricked out Escalade, how on earth can I afford that. George.

Every coach is going to have some recruiting misses. Unfortunately McDermott's came right away. Now he's rebuilding for the long haul and he has a solid nucleus. If some of the young guys take it to the next level as juniors and seniors, or we bring in some more star power, I think the future looks very bright for some consistantly good teams. I'd don't think we'll have the crazy ups as downs that we're used to.

[clone52]

and we'll expect the same old story after the player attrition after this season from you... its not coachs fault ever

You have this fantasy that Eustachy, Floyd and Morgan didn't have the same kind of problems McDermott had. They did, only the timing was different. And they had infinately more talent when they got here.

McDermott is trying to build a stable program built upon high school recruits that stick around. Floyd did the same thing when he realized pulling off a coup like Dedric/Cato/Pratt wasn't a guarentee every two years. He was eventually build a sold core of high schoolers with Stevie, Fizer, Shirley and Rancik.

Eustachy was the same way. He got lucky early with transfers, but then realized he needed to build it for the long haul.

We were willing to give Tim and Larry the time to build it for the long haul, since they got lucky with early success, but now people aren't willing to give McDermott the same time to rebuild things.

[CyBobby]

Tim Floyd was 69-29 after 3 years with 3 NCAA Tournament Births including 2 second rounds and one sweet 16, Larry Eustachy was 72-26 after 3 years with 2 Big 12 Championships including A Elite 8 finish with 2 NCAA tournaments, Wayne Morgan was 55-39 after 3 years including a final 4 appearance in NIT and a 2nd round appearance in the NCAA Tournament., and Greg McDermott is 44-50 so far after 3 years with no post season appearances. Wayne Morgan was fired because his record was not good enough and that the Mens basketball program was supposed to be a elite program. GMACC gets a nine year contract. This does not add up. I think Pollard is going to run our program in the ground. The bottom line in this business is wins and losses.

Your quote re: Pollard IS GOING to run our program in the ground is WRONG!!!!

Pollard HAS ALREADY run our program into the ground!!!