Talent, Next Season vs. the '00 Elite Eight Squad

[clones_jer]

If you want me to be able to understand you, communicate more effectively.

If you want to understand, quit reading things into what people say.

[WalkingCY]

DG can't and never will hit 3's like Nurse. Colvin is only a freshman, and not going to take over a game like Tinsley could. Brackins could have a year like Fizer's.....but his is going to have to be way better to help our 09-10 squad.

Also, our coaching situation is not even close to Larry's. I don't ever see Coach of the Year coming from GMac.....ever. Our current slow *** game plan won't even get us to the tourny...

Hope I am wrong though.... would be nice to be relevant again.

[RivClone23]

How i miss the years that we made more free throws than the opposition attemped

[Cyclone42]

You're DRUNK...

I agree.

I remember Michael Nurse right after he got hit by that car. He was still better than anyone on this team. Sorry. Thanks for playing.

[BryceC]

Wow, that isn't a conceited statement at all . The team won't be successful without you having expectations for them? To even think that your expectations have anything to do with how the players perform is ludicrous.

If you want me to be able to understand you, communicate more effectively.

Honestly, what the hell are you talking about? Where did I say anything like that? Why would my expectations have any effect on what the team does? I predicted our exact record this season - does that mean I think I made it happen with some sort of Dumbledore power? Like Jer said, you are completely twisting my words and putting things into my mouth. You need to take a step back for a second and read what I'm writing as opposed to trying to infer my intentions.

[Chitowncy]

I posted this elsewhere, but I figured that (with a few changes) it deserved it's own thread.

Talent? Yes. I didn't say anything about experience. Or even cohesiveness. Both of those are yet to be seen. But talent--most certainly. As I found when I looked more closely.

Let's see. What were the prominent players? I suppose I should look beyond the top of the food chain Fizer-Tinsley matchups...

Marcus Fizer = Craig Brackins
Easy. It remains to be seen whether CB will match (or exceed) Marcus' junior season, but I'd say his soph season was slightly ahead of Marcus' soph season. Talentwise, equal.

Jamaal Tinsley = Chris Colvin
Remember, we (or I) said talent, and in the long run, Colvin might prove to be even better than Tinsley. But the talent is probably equivalent. At least. How it proves out is yet to be seen--just like Tinsley when he first signed. JT averaged 11 ppg, 6.6 apg 2.6 spg that season.

Michael Nurse = Diante Garrett
Yes, Diante needs to continue to step up his game, become more consistent. We don't know yet how much improvement he'll make. But the talent is probably equal. At the least. Mike averaged 12.5 ppg that year, Diante 9.8 this season. I should note that perhaps the most important aspect that Mike (and Kantrail) added to that team was a secondary ballhandler.

Stevie Johnson < Marquis Gilstrap
Sure, Stevie had a ton of heart, and is a great guy, always smiling. But this one isn't even close. Stevie averaged 9.1 ppg. I suspect that Marquis might better that.

Kantrail Horton = Scott Christopherson, Lucca Staiger or Wes Eikmeier
Just guessing who to stick here. Any one of these guys might match Kantrail's 8.7 ppg. Of course, Lucca did average 8.2 ppg this year, but that wasn't Kantrail's only contribution. Perhaps I should have slotted Garrett here. By the way, considering the comparison, it's ironic that Kantrail was key to landing Marquis.

Paul Shirley < Jamie Vanderbeken
Paul averaged 7.7ppg and 4.4 rpg. Anyone care to figure out Jamie's stats over the latter part of the season? Doesn't matter, because on talent, Jamie is well ahead (outside the classroom).

Martin Rancik < Justin Hamilton
I liked Martin, but this one isn't really close, either. And if JH can make even a moderate step up, he'll easily surpass Martin's 5.5ppg and 3.8 rpg.

Beyond that, we're down to the likes of Brandon Hawkins, Thomas Watkins, and Richard Evans, who all averaged 3.2 ppg or less. I already have Christopherson and Eikmeier on the board as wild cards, and still have a Buckley and a Pomlee up my sleeve.

Yes, if you wanted to evaluate the respective teams, you might shift the matchups around a little. For one thing, perhaps Tinsley should be matched against fellow juco Gilstrap. Or, if you went strictly positionally, Jamaal > DG--but then Colvin wins somewhere else, talentwise. As Gilstrap already does. I could flip some other matchups around, but I'm lazy.

However, my point was as to the respective talent, which was the point that I made in the first place, and I'd have to say that I'm pleased to me realize that next year's team might even be slightly more talented than that '99-00 squad.

With base talent being the argument that is being made. How everything meshes is yet to be seen. As well as the improvents of some players, and the contributions of newcomers.

And I'll also point of that that Elite Eight team was coming off a 15-15 season the year before. I can't say what changes and maturity this team will make and embrace in the ensuing months. Or how the newcomers will fare. But it's obvious that if CB returns, the talent is equal to that '99-'00 team.

So we'll see what happens.

This is a world class post! Quite frankly... AClone... you just made my day (note the lack of a sarcasm pirate). It's the unbridled spirit and optimism of the ISU fan - like you - that keeps me coming back to these boards.

Although I agree with others that you're probably sipping the Kool-Aide, I would rather see fellow Cyclone fans who imbibe in the Kool-Aide from time-to-time rather than a bunch of realist prude co-fans who never dream. Awesome stuff.

You really brought a smile to my face. Never give up the dream.

[Al_4_State]

I posted this elsewhere, but I figured that (with a few changes) it deserved it's own thread.

Talent? Yes. I didn't say anything about experience. Or even cohesiveness. Both of those are yet to be seen. But talent--most certainly. As I found when I looked more closely.

Let's see. What were the prominent players? I suppose I should look beyond the top of the food chain Fizer-Tinsley matchups...

Marcus Fizer = Craig Brackins
Easy. It remains to be seen whether CB will match (or exceed) Marcus' junior season, but I'd say his soph season was slightly ahead of Marcus' soph season. Talentwise, equal.

Jamaal Tinsley = Chris Colvin
Remember, we (or I) said talent, and in the long run, Colvin might prove to be even better than Tinsley. But the talent is probably equivalent. At least. How it proves out is yet to be seen--just like Tinsley when he first signed. JT averaged 11 ppg, 6.6 apg 2.6 spg that season.

Michael Nurse = Diante Garrett
Yes, Diante needs to continue to step up his game, become more consistent. We don't know yet how much improvement he'll make. But the talent is probably equal. At the least. Mike averaged 12.5 ppg that year, Diante 9.8 this season. I should note that perhaps the most important aspect that Mike (and Kantrail) added to that team was a secondary ballhandler.

Stevie Johnson < Marquis Gilstrap
Sure, Stevie had a ton of heart, and is a great guy, always smiling. But this one isn't even close. Stevie averaged 9.1 ppg. I suspect that Marquis might better that.

Kantrail Horton = Scott Christopherson, Lucca Staiger or Wes Eikmeier
Just guessing who to stick here. Any one of these guys might match Kantrail's 8.7 ppg. Of course, Lucca did average 8.2 ppg this year, but that wasn't Kantrail's only contribution. Perhaps I should have slotted Garrett here. By the way, considering the comparison, it's ironic that Kantrail was key to landing Marquis.

Paul Shirley < Jamie Vanderbeken
Paul averaged 7.7ppg and 4.4 rpg. Anyone care to figure out Jamie's stats over the latter part of the season? Doesn't matter, because on talent, Jamie is well ahead (outside the classroom).

Martin Rancik < Justin Hamilton
I liked Martin, but this one isn't really close, either. And if JH can make even a moderate step up, he'll easily surpass Martin's 5.5ppg and 3.8 rpg.

Beyond that, we're down to the likes of Brandon Hawkins, Thomas Watkins, and Richard Evans, who all averaged 3.2 ppg or less. I already have Christopherson and Eikmeier on the board as wild cards, and still have a Buckley and a Pomlee up my sleeve.

Yes, if you wanted to evaluate the respective teams, you might shift the matchups around a little. For one thing, perhaps Tinsley should be matched against fellow juco Gilstrap. Or, if you went strictly positionally, Jamaal > DG--but then Colvin wins somewhere else, talentwise. As Gilstrap already does. I could flip some other matchups around, but I'm lazy.

However, my point was as to the respective talent, which was the point that I made in the first place, and I'd have to say that I'm pleased to me realize that next year's team might even be slightly more talented than that '99-00 squad.

With base talent being the argument that is being made. How everything meshes is yet to be seen. As well as the improvents of some players, and the contributions of newcomers.

And I'll also point of that that Elite Eight team was coming off a 15-15 season the year before. I can't say what changes and maturity this team will make and embrace in the ensuing months. Or how the newcomers will fare. But it's obvious that if CB returns, the talent is equal to that '99-'00 team.

So we'll see what happens.

This is the most ridiculous thing I have ever seen seriously asserted on Cyclone Fanatic.

I still can't understand how you can CONSTANTLY expect things that are completely unrealistic. It just blows my mind. Do you get upset when your constantly overblown hopes/predictions fail to materialize every time? Or do you just delude yourself that you'll get it the next time?

[cyismydog]

DG can't and never will hit 3's like Nurse. Colvin is only a freshman, and not going to take over a game like Tinsley could. Brackins could have a year like Fizer's.....but his is going to have to be way better to help our 09-10 squad.

Also, our coaching situation is not even close to Larry's. I don't ever see Coach of the Year coming from GMac.....ever. Our current slow *** game plan won't even get us to the tourny...

Hope I am wrong though.... would be nice to be relevant again.

Yes, a slower paced gameplan won't get you into the tourney:
Sincerely,
Pittsburgh, The Big 10, UCLA, Arizona State, USC, etc. etc. You are completely clueless.

[cyismydog]

This is the most ridiculous thing I have ever seen seriously asserted on Cyclone Fanatic.

I still can't understand how you can CONSTANTLY expect things that are completely unrealistic. It just blows my mind. Do you get upset when your constantly overblown hopes/predictions fail to materialize every time? Or do you just delude yourself that you'll get it the next time?

Don't you constantly expect us to fail? Do you get upset with your constantly underblown predictions? Your lack of logic, patience and maturity blows my mind.....I hope you don't delude yourself into thinking that you're a knowledgeable fan.

[Mr Janny]

I am hopeful for next year, but I'm not ready to dive headfirst as the OP seems to have.

I know it's been covered already, but let me state again for the record that you cannot compare a guy who has never played a game in an Iowa State uniform to Tinsley. That's just ridiculous. Think back to who Jamaal Tinsley was and what he used to do. To say that he was an incredible ball handler is selling him short. He did things in games that you generally only see in streetball competitions. Yes, I probably have rose colored glasses, but he had talent that just doesn't come around that often. Nothing against Colvin. I hope that he ends up being just as good if not better, but there is no way you can make that call right now.

[jahfg]

This is a world class post! Quite frankly... AClone... you just made my day (note the lack of a sarcasm pirate). It's the unbridled spirit and optimism of the ISU fan - like you - that keeps me coming back to these boards.

Although I agree with others that you're probably sipping the Kool-Aide, I would rather see fellow Cyclone fans who imbibe in the Kool-Aide from time-to-time rather than a bunch of realist prude co-fans who never dream. Awesome stuff.

You really brought a smile to my face. Never give up the dream.

Agreed. This board has become such a bunch of whiners. I don't know how they do it. What's the point of being a fan if you can't dream a little?

[Al_4_State]

Don't you constantly expect us to fail? Do you get upset with your constantly underblown predictions? Your lack of logic, patience and maturity blows my mind.....I hope you don't delude yourself into thinking that you're a knowledgeable fan.

A) No I don't get tired of underblown predictions. Why? Because I can't control anything that happens on the basketball floor. Why in the hell would I make boastful predictions, about something I can't control that aren't base AT ALL in fact? That is exactly what the OP did, but he's praised as some sort of ******* hero. I get way more upset when I have high expectations for something and it fails, like the 2006 Football season or the 2005 Basketball season. Because I can't control, there isn't really any point to getting my hopes up, it just sets you up to be that much more upset when it doesn't happen. I can pray that my next dump turns into $1000 worth of gold, but it ain't happening.

B) Lack of logic? HELLO! McFly! The OP said that Diante Garret, a guy who shoots .113 from three was equal to Michael Nurse, one of the greatest 3 point shooters in school history. That is the definition of lack of logic.

C) Does making baseless statements about how this year's team, which was under .500, is more talented than the greatest team in school make me a knowledgeable fan? I guess in your eyes it does.

DG is as good as Mike Nurse. I'm knowledgeable

We have a legit shot at the Elite 8 next year. I'm knowledgeable.

Anyone who thinks these predictions are unrealistic, must know nothing about basketball because under talented, poorly coached squads go from under .500 to the Elite 8 all the time. I'm knowledgeable.

[jahfg]

People take themselves way too seriously around here.





Post 1000!!!!

[Mr Janny]

Agreed. This board has become such a bunch of whiners. I don't know how they do it. What's the point of being a fan if you can't dream a little?

I think you are thinking of CycloneFantastic.com

That site doesn't get a lot of traffice these days.

Unfortunately, the play of our athletic teams has pushed most people to spend their time on CycloneTraumatic.com and CycloneErratic.com

Really, that's not a bad thing, because those people end up coming around eventually. The problem is that some of the patrons of those sites, also frequent sites like CycloneEmphatic.com and CycloneDramatic.com which encourage them to be loud about their dissappointment.

Me? I spend my time at CycloneTitanic.com. But, then again, I'm a James Cameron fan so...

[erikbj]

Just read the first page and someone is trying to compare a team that was probably the 2nd best team in the country that year, to a team that didn't even make the CBI????

Our lives are really boring.