Goals for MBB program-long term

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by CyForPresident

Beat teams like Drake, Hawaii, and SDSU every year.

---

That would be a good start :yes:

I agree. Beat the teams you are supposed to beat. At the same time, we as fans have to be patient.

I know there will be a lot of disagreement on how high the bar should be at ISU.

Personally, I think top half of the Big 12 every year with the periodic run for a conference title every 3-4 years would be nice. I also think we should be thinking post season nearly every year with an NCAA bid about 70-75% of the years. Once in the NCAA I think we should expect to get to the Sweet 16 about once every 5 years or so and I think a Final Four should be part of the goals...once every 10-12 years or so. How is that?

On the other end, I would hope that we are all in agreement that finishing in the bottom quartile of our conference for three straight years is unacceptable.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by CyinCo

I can agree with that. But I also understand when players who were recruited by the previous staff leave. I think that covers most of them.

---

It doesn't.


As for my expectations, I would hope we can make the tourney about every 4 of 6 years, with maybe a Sweet 16 in there once or twice. The other two I wouldn't really expect any tourney.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by cyclonenum1

I know there will be a lot of disagreement on how high the bar should be at ISU.

Personally, I think top half of the Big 12 every year with the periodic run for a conference title every 3-4 years would be nice. I also think we should be thinking post season nearly every year with an NCAA bid about 70-75% of the years. Once in the NCAA I think we should expect to get to the Sweet 16 about once every 5 years or so and I think a Final Four should be part of the goals...once every 10-12 years or so. How is that?

On the other end, I would hope that we are all in agreement that finishing in the bottom quartile of our conference for three straight years is unacceptable.

---

I think we're in agreement. I'd like to make a run at the conference title more often, like every other year, and maybe a Sweet Sixteen run every three years. I didn't look that up, just typed off of the cuff, so I didn't research how many schools actually pull that off.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by BryceC

It doesn't.


As for my expectations, I would hope we can make the tourney about every 4 of 6 years, with maybe a Sweet 16 in there once or twice. The other two I wouldn't really expect any tourney.

---

It doesn't??

Stinson, Blalock, Carr, Degand, Dunson, Evonavich, Cory Johnson, Marsden and Taggart were Morgan Recruits. McIntosh, Vette, Brister, Wes Johnson, and Mike Taylor were McD recruits. I discussed Johnson and Taylor in my previous post and everyone knows their story. The 3 others had reasons for leaving and, quite frankly, wouldn't have given many quality minutes and would have only made the scholarship situation we have now even worse. In fact, we probably need some player attrition to happen in order to help us long term. It just can't continue to be our top players. We need attrition from end of the bench players who want to find more playing time elsewhere.

I count 9 Morgan players and 5 McD players, including all of the players from his hodge podge, last second, 2006 class.

9 of 14 is nearly 65%. So, I believe I am correct when I say that covers most of them 65% is "most".

this basketball program needs to be no worse than 6th place in the big 12 year in and year out...

should be good enough to get you to the big dance in most years...:yes:

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by CyinCo

It doesn't??

Stinson, Blalock, Carr, Degand, Dunson, Evonavich, Cory Johnson, Marsden and Taggart were Morgan Recruits. McIntosh, Vette, Brister, Wes Johnson, and Mike Taylor were McD recruits. I discussed Johnson and Taylor in my previous post and everyone knows there story. The 3 others had reasons for leaving and, quite frankly, wouldn't have given many quality minutes and would have only made the scholarship situation we have now even worse. In fact, we probably need some player attrition to happen in order to help us long term. It just can't continue to be out top players. We need attrition from end of the bench players who want to find more playing time elsewhere.

I count 9 Morgan players and 5 McD players, including all of the players from his hodge podge, last second, 2006 class.

9 of 14 is nearly 65%. So, I believe I am correct when I say that covers most of them 65% is "most".

---

Johnson was a Morgan recruit but he chose to play for McDermott. He could have told Johnson to take a hike like he did with Westbrook but he kept him on. I consider him a McDermott recruit. So that makes 5 from 2006, 2 from 2007, and likely one from 2008 if the rumors are true. Plus, Morgan was not involved in recruiting Dunson at all so you are wrong there. Marsden chose to play for McD so it really doesn't matter who recruited him.

Regardless the problem this season is not with the guys that left at the end of 2006. There only would have been four Morgan guys left this year, Marsden, Tags, Evanovich, and Degand.

I agree that we need to get to the point where we lose a guy or two at the end of the bench every year. I think that's healthy. Not everybody can be good enough to play.

However, my count is Degand, Stinson, Blalock, Carr, Tags, and Evanovich that left after Morgan. McD's guys that left were CJ, Wesley, Taylor, McIntosh, Dodie, Brister, Vette and Marsden, although we can call him a wash and not count him. So that's 6 for Wayne-O and 7 for McD. Even if we didn't count both Marsden and CJ it would be evens.

At this point I would be glad to get back to the levels we had from Orr's 4th year through Morgan's second year, 22 years total.

22 seasons, 16 winning, 5 losing, 1 even
12 NCAA appearances
3 NIT appearances
2 conference titles
several undefeated home seasons

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by CyCy

At this point I would be glad to get back to the levels we had from Orr's 4th year through Morgan's second year, 22 years total.

22 seasons, 16 winning, 5 losing, 1 even
12 NCAA appearances
3 NIT appearances
2 conference titles
several undefeated home seasons

---

Good post.

Right now, we've got a couple of the losing seasons over with. Maybe we'll go 12 winning seasons in a row?

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by BryceC

Johnson was a Morgan recruit but he chose to play for McDermott. He could have told Johnson to take a hike like he did with Westbrook but he kept him on. I consider him a McDermott recruit. So that makes 5 from 2006, 2 from 2007, and likely one from 2008 if the rumors are true. Plus, Morgan was not involved in recruiting Dunson at all so you are wrong there. Marsden chose to play for McD so it really doesn't matter who recruited him.

Regardless the problem this season is not with the guys that left at the end of 2006. There only would have been four Morgan guys left this year, Marsden, Tags, Evanovich, and Degand.

I agree that we need to get to the point where we lose a guy or two at the end of the bench every year. I think that's healthy. Not everybody can be good enough to play.

However, my count is Degand, Stinson, Blalock, Carr, Tags, and Evanovich that left after Morgan. McD's guys that left were CJ, Wesley, Taylor, McIntosh, Dodie, Brister, Vette and Marsden, although we can call him a wash and not count him. So that's 6 for Wayne-O and 7 for McD. Even if we didn't count both Marsden and CJ it would be evens.

---

I can't say I agree. Those players may have agreed to stay on with McD, but they weren't recruited, primarily anyway, by McD. I might be wrong on Dunson, but I thought he also was a Morgan kid that decided to still sign even with the coaching change. The 2007 class was McD's first class entirely recruited by him and his staff. The 2006 class was a split of some players recruited by Morgan's staff and McD's staff at the last minute.

About a year ago, I took a different job. When I got to that company, 4 months after I was hired, they sold out to a big corporate company that I had no interest in working for. Despite that, I still continued to work that job for another 4 months because A) I was already there so why not give it a chance and B) I could always spend time looking for something else while I'm being paid. I decided I didn't want to be there any longer so I found something else and left.

I tell you that story, which is true, because I see that being a similar situation to the players that stayed on with McD but were recruited by Morgan. They were Morgan's guys even if they stayed on with McD. I can't attribute their leaving to McD. If you do, we'll just need to agree to disagree.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by CyForPresident

Beat teams like Drake, Hawaii, and SDSU every year.

---

That would be a good freaking start.

Honestly, we should be able to be an NCAA tourney team 2-3 years out of 5, with at least one of those seasons being a top level Big 12 team in the top 4 in conference. There will always be some rebuilding years here and there as players graduate.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by CyinCo

I can't say I agree. Those players may have agreed to stay on with McD, but they weren't recruited, primarily anyway, by McD. I might be wrong on Dunson, but I thought he also was a Morgan kid that decided to still sign even with the coaching change. The 2007 class was McD's first class entirely recruited by him and his staff. The 2006 class was a split of some players recruited by Morgan's staff and McD's staff at the last minute.

About a year ago, I took a different job. When I got to that company, 4 months after I was hired,they sold out to a big corporate company that I had no interest in working for. Despite that, I still continued to work that job for another 4 months because A) I was already there so why not give it a chance and B) I could always spend time looking for something else while I'm being paid. I decided I didn't want to be there any longer so I found something else and left.

I tell you that story, which is true, because I see that being a similar situation to the players that stayed on with McD but were recruited by Morgan. They were Morgan's guys even if they stayed on with McD. I can't attribute their leaving to McD. If you do, we'll just need to agree to disagree.

---

So, that new company was unable to convince you to stay on board? They didn't have any say in you staying or leaving?

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by kkise

I agree. Beat the teams you are supposed to beat. At the same time, we as fans have to be patient.

---

How patient? Seriously? I believe we have been quite patient already these past 3 years, considering we fired a coach to hire a guy who has not yet equaled the worst season of his fired predecessor.

Our coach is in the midst of a 9-year contract, for some odd reason. I think we can all agree that it should not take longer than 5-6 years to get this program back to his winning ways. If he is going to get it done, it will happen in the next couple years. Any longer than that is just a waste of time.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by CloneIce

How patient? Seriously? I believe we have been quite patient already these past 3 years, considering we fired a coach to hire a guy who has not yet equaled the worst season of his fired predecessor.

Our coach is in the midst of a 9-year contract, for some odd reason. I think we can all agree that it should not take longer than 5-6 years to get this program back to his winning ways. If he is going to get it done, it will happen in the next couple years. Any longer than that is just a waste of time.

---

I agree. I'd say if after year 5 we are still argueing about where its talent or coaching why we aren't succeeding, then the coach needs to go.