Massive turnover in men's program must stop

**SpokaneCY** · 05-04-2009, 10:20 AM

Originally Posted by djcubby

Agreed. A big point of recruiting is trying to recruit over the players that you have now to make the team better. If recruiting over people causes some people to leave, that cannot be helped.

GMac is recruiting over each and every player as it should be. While Booz and Lucca are/will be great role players, they are being replaced with much more athleticism and more well-rounded players (I hope).

If a kid wants to play just because he wants to play, he should be in rec league. If someone on the roster is taking your minutes either get better, accept your role on the team, or transfer.

Hope Lucca and Booz stay. Cam was a nice rally guy but played no role on gamedays.

**mt85** · 05-04-2009, 10:21 AM

Originally Posted by jaretac

I love how everyone complains that we don't have any Big 12 caliber players except Brackins, but as soon as a few leave everyone is all up on Mac about losing players. If they aren't worthy to play at this level, why do you care?

+1

**ISU_phoria** · 05-04-2009, 10:24 AM

Originally Posted by ajk4st8

Had ISU not struggled to find a BBall coach the last time around, Chizik and Sanderson just left... we would probably be finding ourselves watching a new basketball coach.

This turnover is incredible. The inability to bring in stable and quality recruits has ruined this program.

Sounds like someone's got a "Chicken Little complex."

With Craig's return and some potentially very good players coming in next year and the prospect of a decent season ahead, you'd think we wouldn't get so worked up over some players leaving (or possibly leaving).

As Knownothing stated, we're not the only team that goes through this.....have you noticed our neighbors to the East lately?

**ajk4st8** · 05-04-2009, 10:25 AM

Originally Posted by jaretac

I love how everyone complains that we don't have any Big 12 caliber players except Brackins, but as soon as a few leave everyone is all up on Mac about losing players. If they aren't worthy to play at this level, why do you care?

I think that most people become ****** when they think about how incredibly horrible recruiting has been. How we have wasted years letting our coach make mistakes in recruiting. Thats what angers people.

Look these guys we are losing and gaining are not that different in skill level. It just really sets back a program that has to bring in midrange talent (as a majority) when they arent allowed to gain experience.

There is no reason to be suddenly alarmed. This stuff has been happening to ISU for a long time. We just need to find a way to slow it down. We have been pretty darn sub par since 2001 and our player retention can be linked to it.

Every year I have heard that the players coming in will be better than the ones leaving. I have yet to see that. I am excited and hopefull we will be better, but Im just not counting on it.

**Cydkar** · 05-04-2009, 10:26 AM

The transfer of these players is due to recruiting reaches in the first place. All but Lucca, anyway. We are now recruiting better players (hopefully) who, if they transfer, will be a huge problem. As of now, only Wesley was a hit to the program.

**WBfaceofisu4022** · 05-04-2009, 10:26 AM

Eik, Mann, Lucca, Boozer, and Lee

Ok 4 of these players need/needed to go. i bet mcdermott told mann and eik that they were not going to play much so these two are not big losses at all. Lee well come on hes not good no loss at all. boozer will see a lot less time next year so lets get him out of here. Lucca i would love to see him stay but you cant blame him for leaving. I would if i were him he's not going to go pro staying in the united states so why not start your professional career early?

**DaddyMac** · 05-04-2009, 10:28 AM

Originally Posted by ajk4st8

I think that most people become ****** when they think about how incredibly horrible recruiting has been. How we have wasted years letting our coach make mistakes in recruiting. Thats what angers people.

GMac has been here for 3 seasons.

He's brought in for sure 2 NBA caliber players and probably a third.

Gripe if you will about them staying or getting in trouble - but it's not like a decent amount of talent hasn't been on the floor in recent years.

Recruiting is ok - retention is an issue, although took a giant leap forward about 9 days ago.

**sclotz** · 05-04-2009, 10:30 AM

If the reason players are leaving is that we are getting better talent (which I think is the case) then I am OK with players leaving...the only problem with that is where is our loyalty to the kids that we are recruiting? If we expect players to be loyal to us, why not ISU to them? I really believe McD has had a huge learning curve in the transition to the Big 12, that's the reason why our talent has been spotty (assuming that's the primary reason players are leaving)...I am a McD supporter and hopefully the transition in evaluating recruits, game prep and strategy, and nearly everything else is nearly finished.

**BryceC** · 05-04-2009, 10:31 AM

Originally Posted by keepngoal

isn't this happening to other programs too.. even 'elite' schools? This isn't just an ISU or just a McD thing.

-keep

It does happen a lot of places. However I can't think of one place where it happens with the frequency of ISU though.

**mwitt** · 05-04-2009, 10:33 AM

Can anyone think of an instance where it has been made public that a player is thinking about leaving their school for other than the NBA Draft? And if yes, are there any instances where that player ended up staying?

**clone52** · 05-04-2009, 10:40 AM

Originally Posted by BryceC

It does happen a lot of places. However I can't think of one place where it happens with the frequency of ISU though.

I'm sure it happens just as frequently elsewhere. Do you think a fan of any other Big 12 school has any knowledge that Mann, Eikmeier and Lee have left? Most fans from other schools probably think our retention is great since all they've probably heard about is Brackins.

I consider myself a pretty knowledgeable fan, but I don't know much about other teams turnover. Isn't Nebraska losing a bunch of guys this year?

**clone52** · 05-04-2009, 10:41 AM

Originally Posted by mwitt

Can anyone think of an instance where it has been made public that a player is thinking about leaving their school for other than the NBA Draft? And if yes, are there any instances where that player ended up staying?

Announding Lucca is thinking about it is kind of like knowing someone is thinking about the NBA draft since he's thinking about going to play professionally.

Announcing Boozer is thinking about it is kind of odd.

**mwitt** · 05-04-2009, 10:52 AM

Originally Posted by clone52

Announding Lucca is thinking about it is kind of like knowing someone is thinking about the NBA draft since he's thinking about going to play professionally.

Announcing Boozer is thinking about it is kind of odd.

I find them both odd. There is hype around the NBA Draft -- everyone knew there was a chance Craig was going. If Lucca was considering going back to Europe and then decided against it, if it wasn't made public, the majority of fans would have no idea.

We sign a player out of no where when everyone thought we were done, and then all of a sudden two players are "thinking" about leaving. In this situation, it seems pretty clear to me that 2+2=4. I hope I'm wrong because I like both players.

**kg-cyclone** · 05-04-2009, 10:56 AM

Originally Posted by mwitt

I find them both odd. There is hype around the NBA Draft -- everyone knew there was a chance Craig was going. If Lucca was considering going back to Europe and then decided against it, if it wasn't made public, the majority of fans would have no idea.

We sign a player out of no where when everyone thought we were done, and then all of a sudden two players are "thinking" about leaving. In this situation, it seems pretty clear to me that 2+2=4. I hope I'm wrong because I like both players.

Did not come from nowhere...I said along time ago that we expect to sign another player (Eikmeier's). Boozer/Lucca have nothing to do with Oliver.

**zimman18** · 05-04-2009, 10:56 AM

Anyone think it may be false hope of recruits during the recruiting process?

"If you come to ISU, you have a potential to be a star. You will get good minutes and contribute to the team."

The player comes to ISU, doesn't develop and talent doesn't translate to Big12 caliber. Player loses minutes... Player leaves to go play for lower division school.

I'm not sure anyone is to blame. I think GMac has upped his recruiting this year, and I think we see it immediately.