Massive turnover in men's program must stop

**mwitt** · 05-04-2009, 10:58 AM

Originally Posted by kg-cyclone

Did not come from nowhere...I said along time ago that we expect to sign another player (Eikmeier's). Boozer/Lucca have nothing to do with Oliver.

Fair enough. Still think the rest of the scenario is pretty telling.

**kg-cyclone** · 05-04-2009, 11:02 AM

Originally Posted by mwitt

Fair enough. Still think the rest of the scenario is pretty telling.

Lucca situation: Taking somethings personal.

Boozer situation: Appears to be playing time and/or where he sees himself on the depth chart; he's gotten a lot better and started seeing some time. Maybe it is enough, I don't know.

**theshadow** · 05-04-2009, 11:04 AM

Originally Posted by keepngoal

isn't this happening to other programs too.. even 'elite' schools? This isn't just an ISU or just a McD thing.

It's a societal thing. A lot of kids have been told that they're the "star" for a long time, so when little Johnny sits the bench in favor of better players, he pouts and sulks instead of working his tail off to take a spot from a guy that's playing more.

Then, he takes the easy way out and quits (and yes, to me a transfer or a departure is quitting). And how many of these guys do you ever hear about again?

Consequences of the "me first" times, in addition to the "vicarious parent" complex and the "handlers" during the recruiting process.

**arganbright2** · 05-04-2009, 11:08 AM

Originally Posted by keepngoal

isn't this happening to other programs too.. even 'elite' schools? This isn't just an ISU or just a McD thing.

-keep

I challenge you to find another school that has had more players transfer out/quit/get kicked off than ISU. Our football team has had less people leave in the past 3 years and we have had 2 coaching changes. Not to mention that there are 80 players on a football team as opposed to 12-15 on a basketball team. Don't justify the problem---its ridiculous!!!

**ajk4st8** · 05-04-2009, 11:10 AM

Originally Posted by DaddyMac

GMac has been here for 3 seasons.

He's brought in for sure 2 NBA caliber players and probably a third.

Gripe if you will about them staying or getting in trouble - but it's not like a decent amount of talent hasn't been on the floor in recent years.

Recruiting is ok - retention is an issue, although took a giant leap forward about 9 days ago.

I guess I would consider anything to do wtih player character and ability all having to do with recruiting. We totally agree on everything here, just semantics.

**KCy** · 05-04-2009, 11:11 AM

It may seem harsh but out with the old and in with the new. We all complain when we lose. We all agree we need more talent. We aren't losing that much although I hope Lucca stays.

**clone52** · 05-04-2009, 11:17 AM

Originally Posted by mwitt

I find them both odd. There is hype around the NBA Draft -- everyone knew there was a chance Craig was going. If Lucca was considering going back to Europe and then decided against it, if it wasn't made public, the majority of fans would have no idea.

We sign a player out of no where when everyone thought we were done, and then all of a sudden two players are "thinking" about leaving. In this situation, it seems pretty clear to me that 2+2=4. I hope I'm wrong because I like both players.

The player we recruited out of nowhere was only nowhere to us fans. Most fans on here believed we should 'bank' the scholarship for 2010. Frankly, I thought that wasn't a good idea. If we can get a guy in 2009 that is better than a guy we might get in 2010, then I say go for it.

As for Lucca, rumors had already gotten out. Maybe Lucca wanted it out there publically so he didn't have to address all the rumors, I don't know.

**clone52** · 05-04-2009, 11:21 AM

Originally Posted by arganbright2

I challenge you to find another school that has had more players transfer out/quit/get kicked off than ISU. Our football team has had less people leave in the past 3 years and we have had 2 coaching changes. Not to mention that there are 80 players on a football team as opposed to 12-15 on a basketball team. Don't justify the problem---its ridiculous!!!

I would be concerned if I felt like GMac was running everyone off. To me, its seems like most of the issues are cases where players don't want to be role players and instead want to be stars. Not much GMac can do about that.

**Wesley** · 05-04-2009, 11:22 AM

Folks, it is time to assume each of our players are really seniors and that they may not be on the floor the next year. If we would win 20 games and go NCAA, many of these discussions wouild take a different tone. I put the onus on McD to get things straightened out by winning more games. He needs to kick it up a notch as Emiril says.

**arganbright2** · 05-04-2009, 11:32 AM

So assuming the worst (because I have to) we are going to lose Brackins to the NBA, Gilstrap b/c of eligibility, and JVB to graduation after next year. We aren't getting Barnes and our best recruit for 2010 is a post that plays 1-A ball in Iowa and weighs 180 pounds soaking wet. At this point, we can't afford to have anybody leave the team---I dont care if they fold the towels on the bench or start.

**mcblogerson** · 05-04-2009, 11:56 AM

I don't think the turnover problem is exclusive to ISU if you look around at other schools.
I do think it has to do with a generation of kids expecting everything handed to them b/c they've been told how "special" they are since their junior high basketball team.
I see it in my line of business that a lot of the newest faces in the workforce don't respect their jobs. A lot of them live with their parents and don't really have any responsibilities to concern themselves with.

That being said I don't think Lucca can be faulted for considering leaving ISU to play pro in his home country.
As far as Boozer, Eik and Mann they likely wouldn't see much playing time off the bench, unless injuries open up a spot. I don't see how losing bench players is really dragging down the program.

**CF_Cyclone** · 05-04-2009, 12:05 PM

Last week, KCMO was interviewing someone from Scout.com and he stated that every team in the country is recruiting over pretty much every player on the team. The defections we are seeing is nothing out of the norm. His opinion on this topic was that you can be a coach that is trying to improve things without any loyalty to the players, or you can be loyal to your players, but maybe not a winning ball club. As has been stated on those that have definitely left we have seen an upgrade and I don't believe there were any hard feeling so I feel turnover is not all bad.

**trajanJ** · 05-04-2009, 12:21 PM

It's happening everywhere. KU had 2 players leave this year. Self seems to average one leaving at least every year. A few years back he had a McD's AA leave, so it's not all players without the skills for this level. Some just think they can get more playing time somewhere else.

**Wesley** · 05-04-2009, 12:42 PM

Originally Posted by arganbright2

So assuming the worst (because I have to) we are going to lose Brackins to the NBA, Gilstrap b/c of eligibility, and JVB to graduation after next year. We aren't getting Barnes and our best recruit for 2010 is a post that plays 1-A ball in Iowa and weighs 180 pounds soaking wet. At this point, we can't afford to have anybody leave the team---I dont care if they fold the towels on the bench or start.

Yep, walkons from Ames High may be a major get.....

**wxman1** · 05-04-2009, 12:57 PM

Originally Posted by keepngoal

isn't this happening to other programs too.. even 'elite' schools? This isn't just an ISU or just a McD thing.

-keep

I believe it is maybe not to this degree though. I think McD said it very well the other night in an interview when he said something along the lines of "Sadly this is part of college basketball now."