McDermott and keeping players on the team

[Dryburn]

As you can see in my other post, Eustachy and Floyd had these exact same type of problems.

You include players that never even made it to campus? Are you kidding me? Fine, I won't count walk-ons, but come on! I didn't do that to GMac's totals. One that comes to mind is Lawrence Westbrook, now playing for Minnesota. Also, P' Allen Stinnent, now with Creighton, although I am not sure if he had committed at all to ISU or if he just chose Creighton once GMac was hired. Also, some of those lost players were between the coaching change from Floyd to LE and those losses cover a 9 year period. GMac has not even been here for 4 years yet.

All programs lose players. I do not recall the player losses in the Floyd and LE years causing the problems for their program that the losses to this program cause, do you? Floyd and LE won, so the losses could not have hurt them too much. GMac has not won anything yet.

[clone52]

You include players that never even made it to campus? Are you kidding me? Fine, I won't count walk-ons, but come on! I didn't do that to GMac's totals. One that comes to mind is Lawrence Westbrook, now playing for Minnesota. Also, P' Allen Stinnent, now with Creighton, although I am not sure if he had committed at all to ISU or if he just chose Creighton once GMac was hired. Also, some of those lost players were between the coaching change from Floyd to LE and those losses cover a 9 year period. GMac has not even been here for 4 years yet.

All programs lose players. I do not recall the player losses in the Floyd and LE years causing the problems for their program that the losses to this program cause, do you? Floyd and LE won, so the losses could not have hurt them too much. GMac has not won anything yet.

Stinnett was a Morgan recruit. I don't remember Westbrook's situation exactly.

Why wouldn't you count players recruited by Floyd and Eustachy who didn't make it to it to the first game? i believe they tied up scholarships or forced them into picking others late in the game. Not much different than Brister or Vette.

I'll grant you the guys between the coaching split if you concede that Floyd was given a program that was in infinately better shape than GMac got. Looking back, Eustachy was in a similar spot with very little returning (Fizer, Stevie, Rancik and Shirley).

I can't find Floyd's first two rosters, so its harder to analyze those. Lets look at Eustachy's

between year 1 and year 2:
Rodney Hampton
Lee Love
Paris Corner
Lamar Gregg

between year 2 and year 3
Brandon Hawkins
Tommy Watkins

between year 3 and year 4
Zach Fortune

between year 4 and year 5
Tommie King
Ricky Morgan
Shane Power
Adam Schaper

year 5
Tim Barnes (may have been coaching casualty)
Haluska (out before coaching change)
Chris Alexander (during season)

Over the same time frame (4 years), Eustachy lost just as many as GMac did (not counting year 5 which was looking just as bad for Larry). It is possible GMac loses 1 or 2 more to take a slight lead. Eustachy did have success, but part of that was his legacy players and part of it was Tinsley/Horton. Tinsley was very close to leaving. Had he not been a juco and had the ability to go somewhere else, Larry likely would have driven him away.

[fcmc]

Yeah, that's great.
So will just ignore that about 16 or 17 players now have jumped ship.
Never mind that our roster is starting to get as thin as Iowa's.
Never mind that we can't come close to selling out the Hilton for a game against the number one team in the country.
Yeah, everything's just peachy.
.

[fcmc]

Both got lucky with 1 juco/transfer class and didn't have to start from scratch.

Not saying give GMAC all the time in the world. I still think we're an NCAA tournament team this year and at least a bubble team next year. If we end up NIT or less this year and revert to 12-18 next year, I think he's gone.

So five years of incompetence is your limit?

[clone52]

So five years of incompetence is your limit?

Lets see what happens this year.

[06_CY]

i don't put lucca leaving on greg.

[Hindy]

The ship is taking on water

[ISUFan22]

Your a *******.

Which is? That we've had a problem with turnover? No ****. Everyone knows that.

I think many won't come out and say what you really think: McDermott should be fired on the spot because he can't keep players.

If you think that, then come out and man-up and say it. Otherwise, you are just being a ******. The calls for McDermott's head can wait until after the season. Lucca just quit on this team, we don't need fans quitting on them too.

It is truly amazing that a player makes the absolute most selfish decision a person can make and this board decides to go after the coach. Lucca quit on Craig, he quit on Diante, he quit on Boozer and he quit on us. Any person who sees it otherwise needs to take off the "I hate McDermott" sunglasses and see this for what it is.

I have no problem with discussing this in the offseason. I have a problem with throwing the coach (and thus the team) under the bus while the season is still going on.

So, since you are ripping McDermott up and down in every thread, I'm assuming you think Pollard should fire him immediately, right?

And should hire you since you seem to know absolutely everything about coaching.

Because he took us to a Big 12 title this year? Who knows. THAT'S WHY THEY PLAY THE GAMES. You guys that have given up on him have also given up on this team, and I find that despicable.

I'm not taking it personal. I'm ****** for the teammates he abandoned.

And if you can't understand the difference in leaving in the offseason, when you're spot can be filled, game plans can be made without you, teammates aren't relying on you, and leaving the day before a big game, then I don't think there is any help for you.

As you can see in my other post, Eustachy and Floyd had these exact same type of problems.

I'm completely sick of fans attacking other fans when the real issue is our MBB program. Generally there isn't anything in this thread that is inaccurate.

bawbie - I'll say again, I don't see why you are taking out your frustrations on the fans. This is an ISU MBB program, not an ISU fan problem. If fans believe this is Greg's fault and he should suffer consequences, that is certainly within their right to post such and will have no bearing on how our season plays out. Seriously, just chill.

I do not think it's truly amazing fans are after the coach in response to this. If it were an isolated incident, I think it would be unfair to blame Greg. But this is just yet another player leaving in a very long list. And another guy that left without really any notice, we've had a couple of those too. Defections do happen in other programs - ya know what happens to those coaches? Either they are winning and keep their jobs because no one cares about this stuff when they win. Or they're losing coaches and are soon looking for a job. Instead of attacking fans for wanting Greg to be held responsible, go find me a coach that has been the leader of his program during mass defections, has been losing games and kept his job.

Some of our recent MBB coaches were not all that likable of guys - but they won. Greg is a very nice guy and I have a ton of respect for him, but his W/L record is far from good and we're still having guys leave the program. These things can't just be explained the way, there is a significant problem here and in some fashion, it must be addressed.

If not, we are quickly on our way to being the next CHA, with a fanbase that couldn't care less about MBB and no one showing up for games.

This whole thing is a major buzz kill to a team that was starting to gather a bit of momentum. Played far better against Texas, still lost, but effort was better. Got a conference road win. Ugly, but we have not gotten one of those in a while. On our way to playing a poor Tech team in a game we should win, with potential to have a 2 game winning streak coming into a home sell-out against KU.

And now, and some will certainly disagree, but that momentum is gone. One step forward, two steps back has been the way this program has gone the last few years.

When do the steps forward start to beat the steps backward?

[Cyclonesrule91]

HB was smart enough to not even risk it. Orr, TF, and LE coaching I think barnes is coming.

Keep smoking whatever you're smoking buddy.

[IcSyU]

Such an insightful post! Couldn't have gone in one of the other 23 threads.

[chuckd4735]

I'm starting to be of the opinion that people should be banned for starting new threads on subjects which are heavily discussed in other threads already on the frontpage.

[snowcraig2.0]

I am not saying the original post is true or untrue, but posts like this do no good during the middle of the season.

[Hindy]

Go kis your Greg poster and put your head back in the sand

[gogagig]

But the captain high-five'd my 6 year old son, referred to the wife as "Ma'am" and readily signed the cyclones boxers I told him was for my son! And the captain is Iowan!
I say we keep this captain, come what may!

[Cyclonepride]

If you don't mind, I'll wait to see what this team does the rest of the year. They're finally showing signs of the potential that we knew they had, and going 7 deep isn't too shabby when all 7 are quality kids.