How to "start over"?

**ThatllDoCy** · 02-04-2010, 10:54 AM

Originally Posted by DaddyMac

Does a Jeff Hornacek or Fred Hoiberg (two guys with zero coaching experience btw) really "excite" high school players?

Outside of Iowa, how many kids do you think even know who Freddie is? Maybe even Hornacek? Jeff has been out of pro ball for a decade or so, hasn't he? High schoolers know him? And therefore would they care? Not like we're talking about bringing on some bball legend.

I'm really not on board with this. Great for the fans. Not sure it does zip for recruiting.

We tried the mid-major hot prospect. Just for reference - so did Iowa on several occassions. Not the best results.

For my money - we need to try and poach a top assistant out of a Big 10/Big East school. D1 - major conference experience and recruiting ties.

He is currently working with Kirilenko on shooting. If I were in HS and could have a guy Coach me who played with Stockton, and Malone, went to the NBA Finals and is still teaching Pros how to shoot. I could get excited real quick. That is me though.

**MNCyGuy** · 02-04-2010, 10:54 AM

Originally Posted by wonkadog

I agree with most of your post. Hoiberg may be somewhat more doable as he could really promote that fact that he has some big-time NBA ties and could get guys to the League.

On another note, I really doubt either guy would care much about coaching right now, but who knows.

I don't know, isn't Hoiberg kind of the last holdover from the McHale era staff in Minnesota? I'd imagine his job isn't as safe as some think.

**ISUFan22** · 02-04-2010, 10:56 AM

Would be ok with Hoiberg or someone like that...as an assistant. If we hired 'em as HC, I'd be hard pressed to support that in any fashion.

Hire a guy with no real coaching experience as the HC of a Big 12 basketball program? Please. Not gonna happen.

**Cyclonestate78** · 02-04-2010, 10:57 AM

Originally Posted by bawbie

False, again.

Pollard didn't "jump the gun" and give McDermott an extension "on the team we had this year". The extension was automatic in McDermott's contract based on the loss of scholarships under the previous coach.

This. No more automatic extensions in contracts...... EVER!!!!

**CloneIce** · 02-04-2010, 10:57 AM

Originally Posted by bawbie

False, again.

Pollard didn't "jump the gun" and give McDermott an extension "on the team we had this year". The extension was automatic in McDermott's contract based on the loss of scholarships under the previous coach.

Not entirely correct, you forgot the year based on Jiri driving the wrong car. The extension was based on:

1 year for losing 1 scholarship in year 1 to APR (wouldn't have been filled anyway).

1 year for losing an 2nd scholarship in year 1 to APR (")

1 year for Jiri sitting out 6 non-conference games for driving the wrong car (flat-out inexcusable).

= 9 year contract for a coach who had never coached a game at this level.... apparently 6 years wasn't enough time to rebuilding a basketball program (ridiculous I know).

Bottom line is that terrible contract extension has put our MBB program in a very bad situation now.

**DaddyMac** · 02-04-2010, 10:59 AM

Originally Posted by MNCyGuy

I think the Hoiberg/Hornacek theory is always aimed more at re-energizing fans than it is recruiting. I think if you brought them in you would have to pair them with the right staff. One good X's and O's assistant from a bigger program and then fill the rest of the staff with K-State style recruiting coaches.

If we've learned anything the past 2-3 years, that is to say that "fans are fickle" is a gigantic understatment.

Win - and they're happy and energized, regardless of who you are. Lose and they'll want to string you up - regardless of who you are, and how "energized" they were on your intro day.

Case in point, Gene Chizik. People were doing back flips the day he was announced, and couldn't wait to be rid of him only two short years later. And much of that was BEFORE he bailed for Auburn.

Personally - I don't think Fred or Jeff stand a chance at ISU. They'd just get a little more rope to work with. They lose and people will immediately be pointing out their lack of experience, even right away.

**jsb** · 02-04-2010, 10:59 AM

Originally Posted by ThatllDoCy

It would need to be someone that would ignite the fanbase, and excite the players. Maybe an Alum, a similar move to Tubby at MN, or Tim Floyd. If not one of these, I don't believe it would be worth it.

This is where a lack of reality comes into play.

1. Name me an alum who is qualified to be a college head coach. I love Fred and think that if he wants into coaching, he would do great. I do worry about someone who hasn't coached a day in his life. I love Jeff Hornecek, but again hasn't coached. If we take a leap with these guys that's great, but I would be worried.

2. I don't know who would be a 'Tubby' type hire. We would have to pay 3x what we are paying McDermott to get this. BTW, Tubby's team is not doing great right now.

3. Tim Floyd isn't coming back. He has bad feelings from when LE was fired. I'd also be leary of him since I think there is more to this OJ Mayo thing.

**MNCyGuy** · 02-04-2010, 10:59 AM

Originally Posted by Cyclonestate78

This. No more automatic extensions in contracts...... EVER!!!!

I don't think you'll ever attract the high-profile, splashy coach we crave without one.

**ISUFan22** · 02-04-2010, 11:00 AM

Similar questions were asked in the final years of Dan and I was one of the ones asking 'em - how can we do any better? Well, I firmly believe we are in a better place today than we were then in FB.

We need this to go down similar to the FB situation. Show Greg the writing on the wall and hope he resigns (first time I'm typing a clear "Greg needs to go" message and it's tough to do - but must be done). Then avoid making the Chizik mistake (which didn't look like one at the time) and make a solid hire.

Do I have names of who we should get? No. That's not my job, that belongs to our athletic director and whatever group he appoints to assist him in that process.

**MNCyGuy** · 02-04-2010, 11:00 AM

Originally Posted by DaddyMac

If we've learned anything the past 2-3 years, that is to say that "fans are fickle" is a gigantic understatment.

Win - and they're happy and energized, regardless of who you are. Lose and they'll want to string you up - regardless of who you are, and how "energized" they were on your intro day.

Case in point, Gene Chizik. People were doing back flips the day he was announced, and couldn't wait to be rid of him only two short years later. And much of that was BEFORE he bailed for Auburn.

Personally - I don't think Fred or Jeff stand a chance at ISU. They'd just get a little more rope to work with. They lose and people will immediately be pointing out their lack of experience, even right away.

I agree. I was just painting a picture of what I think would have to happen to make either of them work as a hire.

**Cyclonestate78** · 02-04-2010, 11:02 AM

Originally Posted by ISUFan22

Would be ok with Hoiberg or someone like that...as an assistant. If we hired 'em as HC, I'd be hard pressed to support that in any fashion.

Hire a guy with no real coaching experience as the HC of a Big 12 basketball program? Please. Not gonna happen.

We could always make a run at Roy Williams. He should be unemployed by the end of the year based on UNC's results.

**CloneIce** · 02-04-2010, 11:03 AM

Originally Posted by MNCyGuy

I don't think you'll ever attract the high-profile, splashy coach we crave without one.

Automatic extensions are fine.... as long as they are based on the success of the men's basketball program. Extensions based on Jiri driving the wrong car? Too stupid and incompetent to even consider.

As a basketball fan I am sure you know that Coaches getting 3-year extensions before they coach a basketball game based on very minor NCAA transgressions from the previous coaching staff is an extreme rarity in NCAA basketball. Gmac is the only coach I have ever heard of getting that sweet deal (though I am sure there has to be a couple more out there in all of the NCAA).

**VeloClone** · 02-04-2010, 11:03 AM

Originally Posted by ISUFan22

Would be ok with Hoiberg or someone like that...as an assistant. If we hired 'em as HC, I'd be hard pressed to support that in any fashion.

Hire a guy with no real coaching experience as the HC of a Big 12 basketball program? Please. Not gonna happen.

Disagreed with you on the other thread, 22; agree with you here that it wouldn't be a good idea. It is too big of a gamble. Let 'em walk before you need them to run. I would support them if they were our selected our coach. (I'm pretty sure you weren't saying you wouldn't support them after they got the job.)

**ISUAgronomist** · 02-04-2010, 11:04 AM

Originally Posted by Cyclonestate78

We could always make a run at Roy Williams. He should be unemployed by the end of the year based on UNC's results.

Sounds great

...and then HB would come with him

...and everyone would be happy

.

**DaddyMac** · 02-04-2010, 11:04 AM

Originally Posted by MNCyGuy

I agree. I was just painting a picture of what I think would have to happen to make either of them work as a hire.

Yep. In all honesty, I think Freddie could be a GREAT hire. But he needs to cut his teeth somewhere and get back into the college game. And of course get the right guys on the bench with him - as you pointed out.

We know the fan base would explode. We know he almost certainly wouldn't jump ship to a better job. Only thing we don't know is can he deliver the players and get it done on the court.