Does losing Ham and Buckley really matter?

**Stormin** · 03-13-2010, 09:06 PM

Originally Posted by yaman3

Really? A lot of two year players and starters leaving teams? I don't think so. Don't even try to argue our attrition is average because it certainly is not. The point is Mac is not building a connection and relationship that bonds them to him and the University. The point is that they do not care enough about Mac to not hurt him. I took him at his word until I did find out differently.

A two year player buried on the 3rd string? Or a 3rd year player that is a potential NBA high draft choice? Ham transferring hurts. But he says it is to be closer to home. He might be lying, but who knows? I am concerned with the attrition. But not ready to jump overboard. We will miss Ham's 6 points and 5 rebounds. But his replacement may get that and more. It isn't like they are astronomical statistics. I do think that Ham was developing into a Big 12 player though and find it disappointing that he is transferring after it was us who took the chance on him and gave him a shot when no one else would. Not much loyalty anymore I guess.

**Tre4ISU** · 03-13-2010, 09:14 PM

Originally Posted by Stormin

A two year player buried on the 3rd string? Or a 3rd year player that is a potential NBA high draft choice? Ham transferring hurts. But he says it is to be closer to home. He might be lying, but who knows? I am concerned with the attrition. But not ready to jump overboard. We will miss Ham's 6 points and 5 rebounds. But his replacement may get that and more. It isn't like they are astronomical statistics. I do think that Ham was developing into a Big 12 player though and find it disappointing that he is transferring after it was us who took the chance on him and gave him a shot when no one else would. Not much loyalty anymore I guess.

Wesley and Lucca both bolted after having a sufficient amount of playing time and time in general here. Mac is not building a relationship with some of the guys he recruits. None of his first class graduated from here and only JVB is left from his 08 class. The who uproar over all of this is not just about Ham. It is about year after year, people leaving the program. Mac has brought in a huge number of kids. That is because he has not been able to keep them here. It really isn't about them just leaving. It is that they are leaving after multiple years of being hear. It is one thing if a freshman leaves because he doesn't fit but having guys that are sophomores leaving is odd. It just doesn't seem like the team has Macs back. It's like they aren't too worried about hanging him out there.

**CycloneErik** · 03-13-2010, 09:16 PM

Originally Posted by yaman3

Wesley and Lucca both bolted after having a sufficient amount of playing time and time in general here. Mac is not building a relationship with some of the guys he recruits. None of his first class graduated from here and only JVB is left from his 08 class. The who uproar over all of this is not just about Ham. It is about year after year, people leaving the program. Mac has brought in a huge number of kids. That is because he has not been able to keep them here. It really isn't about them just leaving. It is that they are leaving after multiple years of being hear. It is one thing if a freshman leaves because he doesn't fit but having guys that are sophomores leaving is odd. It just doesn't seem like the team has Macs back. It's like they aren't too worried about hanging him out there.

+1000. Well said. If I had a coupon to hand out, I'd give it to you for that post.

There's a serious relationship gap if guys like Ham are leaving after multiple years, tons of development and playing time, and starting all those games.

**deadeyededric** · 03-13-2010, 09:33 PM

It probably means are average loss will be 15-20 per game compared to 10-15.

**CyFever** · 03-13-2010, 10:18 PM

It hurts because I thought for Mac to be successful, he was going to have to stock the program with kids that completed their eligibility here, that our best teams would be heavy on 3-5 year players. Instead, we're rotating through a lot of new faces every year. No one learns a system. No one buys into a program. No one helps develop any continuity.

**CycloneErik** · 03-13-2010, 10:19 PM

Originally Posted by CyFever

It hurts because I thought for Mac to be successful, he was going to have to stock the program with kids that completed their eligibility here, that our best teams would be heavy on 3-5 year players. Instead, we're rotating through a lot of new faces every year. No one learns a system. No one buys into a program. No one helps develop any continuity.

Right. It takes at least a full exhibition game for me to have an idea who the guys are.

**bizzle** · 03-14-2010, 01:21 PM

Right. If these guys are leaving, they don't care about McD. And if they don't care about McD, that's probably indicative of the type of coach he is/isn't...

You know, it's pretty sad that this guy was repped for being a "good guy"--and here we are with no academic Big XII honors nor players who are willing to fight for him.

Mike Taylor leaves McD, yeh, seems like that one's on Taylor. Wes Johnson leaves, whatever. Reasons for that, too. But we're in what, year 4, year 5 now? And he still has players leaving? The players aren't the problem here.

**JVAR** · 03-14-2010, 02:11 PM

Mike Taylor leaves McD, yeh, seems like that one's on Taylor. Wes Johnson leaves, whatever. Reasons for that, too. But we're in what, year 4, year 5 now? And he still has players leaving? The players aren't the problem here.

Couldn't agree more!!!! Do you guys think losing Buckley hurts our chances with Clyburn since they were HS teammates? I do know he has Phillips are good friends, however. I am sick of starting over. We lose 3 starters off of a basement Big 12 team. I don't think we can cover that big of a gap with JUCOs to finish anywhere near the middle.

**bostrem00** · 03-14-2010, 02:37 PM

Originally Posted by acgclone

Serious question. What really changes without them? We were likely headed for a poor season next year anyway, IMO. We may lose a couple of more games, but the fact is that this program was/is in shambles with or without Ham/Buck.

I have been on the fire Gmac bandwagon for the past several weeks because I've seen ABSOLUTELY NOTHING from him in his first four years, that would give me hope for the next four.

With that said, it seems that there are a number of people who were with Gmac previously, but now have changed their tune due to these transfers.

My only question is, will next year or the next 3 years for that matter be any different without Ham/Buck? I don't think so.

I guess if continuity isn't a virtue of the program...

**CycloneYoda** · 03-14-2010, 02:49 PM

No loss in Buckley. Huge loss in Hamilton. The dude was becoming a board machine. Something we need.

**StLouisClone** · 03-14-2010, 06:08 PM

Originally Posted by CycloneYoda

No loss in Buckley. Huge loss in Hamilton. The dude was becoming a board machine. Something we need.

The announcers in the KSU game said that Ham was leading the Big 12 in offensive rebounding. Pretty impressive for a guy who was playing JV ball in high school only three years ago. This loss is huge. Whatever tiny amount of hope I had for GMac has completely disappeared.