Greg's recruiting

[snowcraig2.0]

Yeah - I am not understanding all of these people who are saying recruiting is not an issue. We have NO Big 12 talent on the roster anymore. Out of the last 4 years of the GMAC era, who is/was REALLY Big 12 material??

I would argue that most of the guys he brought in could have eventually been contributers in the Big 12. The problem is keeping them around long enough to get them to that point.

[Clonegrad07]

We went to the Elite 8 with Marcus Fizer and Jamaal Tinsley - and a bunch of role players.

I don't wish to compare those stars to our stars of late. But I don't think you can convince me that the of the role players, there's a tremendous difference in basketball skill.

Attitude? Hell yes. But not necessarily skill. Front line in particular

I'm hard pressed to say Stevie Johnson, Paul Shirley or Martin Rancik is much better than a Justin Hamilton, James Vanderbeeken or LaRon Dendy.

Back court might be a bit different, Nurse and Horton were far better shooters (more consistent) than Lucca or Scotty. I'll take Colvin still over the likes of Bandon Hawkins.

But still, is there such a "talent" gap? I don't think so.

Now put those role players against against this years, and even though the talent might be comparable, I'll say the attitude and effort of the '00 guys will win the matchup 10 out of 10 times.

You're wrong. Stevie Johnson was a very nice player and highly recruited. Paul Shirley played in the NBA and overseas and was a very good player. Horton could fill it up as well as anyone I remember from around the three point line. Hard to say they're role players.

I also think you've forgotten how good Tinsley and Fizer were. Fizer was the best player in basketball and Tinsley could get into the lane WHENEVER he wanted. Brackins wasn't even close to the player either of those guys were.

[snowcraig2.0]

Brackins wasn't even close to the player either of those guys were.

Fizer was a great, great player. I don't think he would have been as great without Tinsley and the rest of those guards. Who knows how good Craig could have been with those three guards.

[CRAZYGREG]

Off the top of my head:

tier 1 Brackins, Gilstrap, Wesley Johnson, Mike Taylor.

tier 2 Colvin, Staiger, Dendy

tier 3 DG, Hamilton, Boozer?

tier 1:
CB - Wasn't most of the recruiting done in the WM era? GMAC just closed the deal.
MG - With only 1 year to play - not too many top programs gave him a look
WJ - Pure Luck! 1 out of 100 2* recruits that actually work out. But good job.
MT - 2 year JC player with attitude problems - Only 2 offers from horrible MN team and ISU.
tier 2:
CC - Great get - will give credit on this one! could not keep for longer than 1 year but still good
LS - BUST
LD - Outside of like maybe 5 games last year - just ok
tier 3:
DG - You are joking right - I said Big 12 talent
JH - MAYBE might have been good as a senior. FS and SO years were not really on par with the Big 12
Booz - I do not think 8 minutes off the bench average in 3 years qualifies as Big 12 talent.

Sorry i just can not see how people say GMac is recruiting big 12 talent.

[dbronco7sc]

CB - Wasn't most of the recruiting done in the WM era? GMAC just closed the deal.

Craig was a part of GMac's second class, and signed with us pretty much because of TJ.

Unless WM was recruiting Brackins a few years out and I don't remember that... which could very well be. But I don't think he was tied to WM at all.

[CycloneWarning]

Craig was a part of GMac's second class, and signed with us pretty much because of TJ.

Unless WM was recruiting Brackins a few years out and I don't remember that... which could very well be. But I don't think he was tied to WM at all.

I think you are correct. WM probably shouldn't be given any credit for Brackins, and frankly, GM should probably get only a little. Brackins probably never even heard of Ames until GM hired his AAU coach, TJ. GM should be given credit for that smart move (which, ironically, if someone like Frank Martin does this, half the board likely says he is dirty, but we are a shining beacon of integrity).

[Frak]

OK, here are my thoughts on the overall problems:

1. Guard (specifically PG) evaluation and recruitment. Whoever was evaluating guards needs to be shown the door (if he hasn't been already). Buckley was never a Big XII PG. DG and Lucca are one-dimensional players, which means that they should have been coming off the bench. Colvin was OK, but obviously no one ever taught him how to play under control.

2.Retention - Is there no "good cop" on the staff? Was GMac both the good cop and the bad cop? There needs to be a better relationship between the players and the staff. You don't see FB players jumping ship left and right. That's because they have RESPECT for the staff and their teamates. The FB team is like a family while MBB has been a collection of individuals. Look at a guy like Bo Williams. Here's a player who has every reason to transfer, yet he doesn't. He'll likely never play more than mop-up minutes at ISU, yet the staff is flying him to Pittsburgh for medical treatment. IMO that really says something.

[CRAZYGREG]

Craig was a part of GMac's second class, and signed with us pretty much because of TJ.

Unless WM was recruiting Brackins a few years out and I don't remember that... which could very well be. But I don't think he was tied to WM at all.

He was part of GMac's second class but rivals has his commitment date as like 04/2006 or 06/2006, cant remember which. That would RIGHT after Wayne was shown the door. Meaning that he did have a LARGE part in that recruitment.

[snowcraig2.0]

He was part of GMac's second class but rivals has his commitment date as like 04/2006 or 06/2006, cant remember which. That would RIGHT after Wayne was shown the door. Meaning that he did have a LARGE part in that recruitment.

Wayne had NOTHING to do with Brackins.

[Wesley]

I think you are correct. WM probably shouldn't be given any credit for Brackins, and frankly, GM should probably get only a little. Brackins probably never even heard of Ames until GM hired his AAU coach, TJ. GM should be given credit for that smart move (which, ironically, if someone like Frank Martin does this, half the board likely says he is dirty, but we are a shining beacon of integrity).

The NCAA does not allow this any more?

[Wesley]

OK, here are my thoughts on the overall problems:

1. Guard (specifically PG) evaluation and recruitment. Whoever was evaluating guards needs to be shown the door (if he hasn't been already). Buckley was never a Big XII PG. DG and Lucca are one-dimensional players, which means that they should have been coming off the bench. Colvin was OK, but obviously no one ever taught him how to play under control.

2.Retention - Is there no "good cop" on the staff? Was GMac both the good cop and the bad cop? There needs to be a better relationship between the players and the staff. You don't see FB players jumping ship left and right. That's because they have RESPECT for the staff and their teamates. The FB team is like a family while MBB has been a collection of individuals. Look at a guy like Bo Williams. Here's a player who has every reason to transfer, yet he doesn't. He'll likely never play more than mop-up minutes at ISU, yet the staff is flying him to Pittsburgh for medical treatment. IMO that really says something.

So what did you think of Dodie Dunson, BP, S Haluska, Brock Jacobsen, and Corey McIntosh ? What Tier are they?

[CycloneWarning]

The NCAA does not allow this any more?

No, there is no rule against it. I was referring to "perception".

Hell, KU didn't even get in trouble for hiring Ed Manning to their staff and he had no prior coaching experience. KU did it again with Mario Chalmers dad, but at least he had some coaching background.

[jdoggivjc]

I agree with most that for the most part, recruiting hasn't been the major problem. Sure there were swings and misses, but how many schools not named North Carolina, Duke, Kentucky, or Kansas are forced to take gambles every so often? And how many people were of the opinion that this last team wasn't talented enough to make the tourney? It was mostly coaching and effort that got in the way.

[Rural]

We were not near talented enough.

[907CY]

I agree with most that for the most part, recruiting hasn't been the major problem. Sure there were swings and misses, but how many schools not named North Carolina, Duke, Kentucky, or Kansas are forced to take gambles every so often? And how many people were of the opinion that this last team wasn't talented enough to make the tourney? It was mostly coaching and effort that got in the way.

I would go with effort first and then coaching. I think that Mac was so gun shy about hurting their feelings or having them leave mid season that he did not put his foot down until the Colvin matter. At times last year we looked like a pick up team at the Y. and not a good one at that.