Iowa HS Boys State Sioux Center ruling?

**dsreid** · 03-05-2012, 08:23 PM

I just got done listening to the Sioux Center vs. Top-seeded MFL/Mar-Mac, and with 10 seconds left a kid fouls out, but no one tells him, and the score is 69-70, SC down by one. MFL player misses both free throws, however, the player who fouled out didn't leave the court so they T him up, game over.

Is this the correct ruling? I'm not sure if I have heard of this happening without an official saying something..

**clone2011** · 03-05-2012, 08:29 PM

I believe it's the official scorer's responsibility to notify the floor officials of a player's 5th foul, although the team scorer should have notified their coach as well. I would think it's a neutral party keeping the official book for the state tournament unless they follow regular season rules in which the home book is the "official" book.

And doesn't the player have until the end of the free throws to sub? Or at least until the sub time between free throws?

**CyCrazy** · 03-05-2012, 08:32 PM

Originally Posted by dsreid

I just got done listening to the Sioux Center vs. Top-seeded MFL/Mar-Mac, and with 10 seconds left a kid fouls out, but no one tells him, and the score is 69-70, SC down by one. MFL player misses both free throws, however, the player who fouled out didn't leave the court so they T him up, game over.

Is this the correct ruling? I'm not sure if I have heard of this happening without an official saying something..

I hope Sioux Center lost.

**dsreid** · 03-05-2012, 08:42 PM

MFL was in the double bonus, so after the first missed free throw, he shot his second, SC rebounds, then the technical.

**khehr** · 03-05-2012, 08:44 PM

Originally Posted by CyCrazy

I hope Sioux Center lost.

They did, by 1.

**3TrueFans** · 03-05-2012, 08:50 PM

Certainly someone is required to inform the team that a player has been disqualified from the game, right? Maybe they were told but they spaced off and didn't substitute in time? I think you get 20 seconds or so to replace a player, in college atleast.

**IcSyU** · 03-05-2012, 09:12 PM

The official scorer should notify the calling official and then the player has to be replaced before any free throws are attempted (in 20 seconds like mentioned above...I believe college is 30).

**dsreid** · 03-05-2012, 09:20 PM

Originally Posted by IcSyU

The official scorer should notify the calling official and then the player has to be replaced before any free throws are attempted (in 20 seconds like mentioned above...I believe college is 30).

Yes, I thought so too. Not one but BOTH free throws were attempted, and after the rebound they called the T... crazy stuff.

**IcSyU** · 03-05-2012, 09:21 PM

Originally Posted by dsreid

Yes, I thought so too. Not one but BOTH free throws were attempted, and after the rebound they called the T... crazy stuff.

I'm checking the rule book and case books I have right now (to confirm I have a clue what I'm talking about as well as see if the above situation is covered).

**IcSyU** · 03-05-2012, 09:25 PM

Someone should tweet @brentblum and see if he has an answer. I think I saw he's at state basketball (I don't use twitter to tweet..just read).

**CYVADER** · 03-05-2012, 09:28 PM

blum is working on it. Travis hines is on it too. sc did sub but the wrong kid came out. the kid that had fouled out wasn't told he fouled out by the refs.

**ruxCYtable** · 03-05-2012, 09:34 PM

Originally Posted by clone2011

I believe it's the official scorer's responsibility to notify the floor officials of a player's 5th foul, although the team scorer should have notified their coach as well. I would think it's a neutral party keeping the official book for the state tournament unless they follow regular season rules in which the home book is the "official" book.

And doesn't the player have until the end of the free throws to sub? Or at least until the sub time between free throws?

No they have to sub immediately.

I would think if it was truly a scoring error that some leniency is in order. But if the bench and player were notified, once the ball becomes live again I assume he is participating illegally and there has to be a penalty. But again, I can't imagine penalizing the team for a scoring error if that's indeed what it turned out it was.

**IcSyU** · 03-05-2012, 09:37 PM

IowaPreps.com - Message Boards

Sounds a LOT like the score table messed up badly. This is why you have a horn. Use it.

Although the refs had to know to whistle him for the technical so shame on the referees.

**ruxCYtable** · 03-05-2012, 09:56 PM

If it was truly a scoring error as opposed to the coach/player ignoring the disqualification there should have been no technical, which I think was already known by common sense but here it is in black & white:

Rule 2-11-11

2. The procedure if a player who has committed his/her fifth foul *continues to play because the scorer has failed to notify the official is as follows: As soon as the scorer discovers the irregularity, the game horn should be sounded after, or as soon as, the ball is in control of the offending team or is dead. The disqualified player must be removed immediately. Any points which may have been scored while such *player was illegally in the game are counted. If other aspects of the error are correctable, the procedure to be followed is**** included among the duties of the officials.

**theshadow** · 03-05-2012, 11:30 PM

The table notified the official.
The official notified the coach.

At that point, it's up to the coach to make sure the disqualified player is subbed out. Otherwise, once the ball is live, it's a technical foul.

The coach sent in multiple subs.
The disqualified player didn't come out.

MFL shot its free throws, and once the ball was live (on the missed second FT), play was stopped and the technical foul assessed.