Penn State University - The Freeh Report

[FarminCy]

The answer to your first point is a no. Remember the rape that happened at Iowa a few years ago. You remember how that was handled...poorly by U of I staff. Do you remember any NCAA sanctions coming out of that?

The second one is probably a no as well.


I agree that it's messed up the NCAA can punish a school for a coach sending out too many texts but not for covering up child molestation. However, that power was not given to the NCAA.

Two different scenarios. A player raping his ex girlfriend and the university acknowledging it and allowing him to play again after time served was bad PR but not a cover up by any means and was not even close to lack of institutional control. And most of the bad PR came from how much of a cry baby jack *** Alford was. But a football program covering up child rape by a coach for 15 years and still allowing him access to facilities with kids and not following federal mandatory reporting guidelines could be considered lack of institutional control to a sense.

I agree that there is no history of NCAA stepping in on rape in the past but there has never been anything like this happen in the past. And my view is you may not win but one could definitely argue that there was a lack of institutional control going on at PSU. The main hold up is on whether the NCAA can deem the lack of control based on strictly NCAA violations or can step in on a corrupt program breaking federal laws and covering up child rape. I'm not holding my breath on the NCAA stepping in but good god they will look bad to a lot of people when they don't.

[Angie]

I agree, but I keep coming back to the least likely scenario.

The scenario that the football program is now proven to be implicit. The football program never suffers any penalty in terms of games played, revenue, bowl games, B1G championship games, etc... Then the general public completely absolves Penn State football and the university of what happened.

Even with a one season suspension or something it would never totally go away. It's going to exist in a major way for sure with PSU football chugging along completely uninterrupted. I wouldn't stop being an ISU athletics fan if this were ISU, but I'd definitely want our football program suspended somehow even if it meant long term damage to the football program in trade for long term value to my university.

My sense of justice for the victims wants PSU to pay. But then I keep wondering if that's just also making victims out of the athletes there, too. It's just an awful situation.

I do wonder if PSU will actually lose many recruits for this, though, if they don't suffer any type of penalty (i.e. loss of games, death penalty, etc.).

[GMackey32]

You bring up a great point. I've been discussing this with my law school brother who says the Clery Act more than gives the NCAA to punish a school for certain crimes, even outside normal NCAA sanctions.

I don't know all the lawyer speak of this Clery Act, but it sounds to me like it's purpose is to hold schools responsible for actions they could otherwise say they didn't have to be responsible for?

Yeah, the lawyer speak of the Clery Act is somewhat hard to understand, but from what it looks like, it give the NCAA some power to step in if universities aren't following the protocol for mandatory reporting.

The guy that tweeted went on to say that while it won't be an outright "death penalty" the other sanctions and the public's reaction to everything going on will have an end result similar to a "death penalty" (i.e., students transfer/lower enrollment, bad PR, loss of millions to victims, other sanctions).

[twistedredbird]

See, I agree, but what sucks is that its never those involved who get punished. Its the people having to clean up the mess that do.

On one hand I agree with you, the athletes/coaches now, didn't have anything to do with it. However, on the other hand, the State of Pennsylvania and Penn St. alum have always been very hush hush about Penn St. monies and activities. The state, the people of the state, the alumni, allowed a culture to exist where a head coach of a football team could do no wrong, and RULE the state, including getting DAs out of town, so to speak.

They developed this mafioso style culture in the state and the university where certain people's activities went unchecked, so, now unfortunately, when something goes wrong, they must suffer the consequences.

[WalkingCY]

So the Hi-Ups at PSU concealed all of this information for a long time and for what? their top notch educational program? No, it was to protect the "money train" and the legacy of the football program. Wow, what a disgrace. This is just terrible what happened to these victims.

That's what the NCAA will weigh on. Don't you think? They will have to look into that. I don't know if the "Death Penalty" will happen all the way.... but maybe in some form.

[FarminCy]

On one hand I agree with you, the athletes/coaches now, didn't have anything to do with it. However, on the other hand, the State of Pennsylvania and Penn St. alum have always been very hush hush about Penn St. monies and activities. The state, the people of the state, the alumni, allowed a culture to exist where a head coach of a football team could do no wrong, and RULE the state, including getting DAs out of town, so to speak.

They developed this mafioso style culture in the state and the university where certain people's activities went unchecked, so, now unfortunately, when something goes wrong, they must suffer the consequences.

This I completely agree with. There were more than just the 4 names in the report that allowed this to happen.

Penalties aren't fair to everyone but they happen for a reason including deterring such actions from happening again.

[mwitt]

Penn State covered up the crimes to protect its football program -- the NCAA is absolutely within its rights to act on it. Punish the program and allow its athletes to transfer anywhere they'd like without sitting out a year.

[WalkingCY]

Final letter from Joe Paterno:
(Joe Paterno defends football program in letter.)

Penn State Nittany Lions -- Joe Paterno defends football program in pre-death letter - ESPN


Joe, your final letter should have been to apologize to the children/victims you did not feel the need to protect from this monster.

[HFCS]

Penn State covered up the crimes to protect its football program -- the NCAA is absolutely within its rights to act on it. Punish the program and allow its athletes to transfer anywhere they'd like without sitting out a year.

They wouldn't admit it to teammates ahead of time, but many of the players might breath a sigh of relief for that.

I know I would in that situation. You don't want to abandon your teammates when they are down and trying to rally together, but if someone gives you a no penalty way to disassociate yourself from a horrific crime most people would be very thankful at some level.

[FarminCy]

Final letter from Joe Paterno:
(Joe Paterno defends football program in letter.)

Penn State Nittany Lions -- Joe Paterno defends football program in pre-death letter - ESPN


Joe, your final letter should have been to apologize to the children/victims you did not feel the need to protect from this monster.

Saw this last night. Even in his dying letter he failed to accept blame and tried to deflect it away from his precious football program. Just cemented that I have zero respect for the man.

[CLONECONES]

Final letter from Joe Paterno:
(Joe Paterno defends football program in letter.)

Penn State Nittany Lions -- Joe Paterno defends football program in pre-death letter - ESPN


Joe, your final letter should have been to apologize to the children/victims you did not feel the need to protect from this monster.

I want to feel bad for Joe... but so much has been coming out where it proves he had 0 concern for the children

[VeloClone]

My sense of justice for the victims wants PSU to pay. But then I keep wondering if that's just also making victims out of the athletes there, too. It's just an awful situation.

I do wonder if PSU will actually lose many recruits for this, though, if they don't suffer any type of penalty (i.e. loss of games, death penalty, etc.).

I agree with you, Angie, but is it really much different than sending a mother or father to prison? You are affecting the lives of innocents there as well. Those kids are growing up without a parent and the parent left behind has to raise kids as a single parent.

It sucks but we don't fail to serve justice just because someone else's life might be affected. There are a lot of people who were obviously complicit in this and there needs to be some accountability.

What I really get sick of seeing is the NCAA move at glacial speed on issues. It is absolutely no deterrent to the players when a player like Reggie Bush can finish his playing career at USC and be well established in the pros before the NCAA even issues a report on their findings of his taking pay for play. Never mind how lame those findings might be and toothless the sanctions. And don't get me started on Cam Newton....

[jbhtexas]

My sense of justice for the victims wants PSU to pay. But then I keep wondering if that's just also making victims out of the athletes there, too. It's just an awful situation.

If the NCAA gives some sort of death penalty to PSU, they can also make a provision to allow the athletes to transfer to other schools without undue restrictions. I would suspect most PSU athletes won't have too much trouble finding a place to play. Nobody is forced to play sports at PSU.

I do wonder if PSU will actually lose many recruits for this, though, if they don't suffer any type of penalty (i.e. loss of games, death penalty, etc.).

I guess time will tell. If my kid were going there (playing sports or otherwise), I would be doing everything in my power to persuade him/her to transfer, even if it meant me ponying up more money for college. So far, the only "penalty" PSU has suffered is a massive increase in donations.

[mwitt]

If the NCAA gives some sort of death penalty to PSU, they can also make a provision to allow the athletes to transfer to other schools without undue restrictions.

Exactly -- this shouldn't be difficult. The NCAA let seniors transfer after banning USC from bowl games for paying Reggie Bush. Letting kids transfer who don't want to be associated with a unversity that harbored a child rapist shouldn't even be a question.

[JP4CY]

My sense of justice for the victims wants PSU to pay. But then I keep wondering if that's just also making victims out of the athletes there, too. It's just an awful situation.

I do wonder if PSU will actually lose many recruits for this, though, if they don't suffer any type of penalty (i.e. loss of games, death penalty, etc.).

With Urban Meyer and Dana Holgerson next door? I would think so.