Red Light cameras: A topic that's guaranteed 100% Sandusky free

**CYlent Bob** · 07-22-2012, 03:35 PM

Just saw this piece linked on Instapundit.

Florida: Traffic Camera Records Impossible Speeds

Red light cameras are registering offenses against vehicles that are supposedly going up to 215 mph at the time? These are NOT speeding tickets (because red light cameras are not legally allowed to assess speeding penalties), but this data is collected whenever an alleged red light violation occurs.

To me, this brings up an interesting point: If the system can't be trusted to register the speed of the vehicle, should we trust it to tell us if the vehicle ran the red light? After all, it's not like cities and the private traffic camera maintenance companies have a financial motive for installing unreliable systems that send $100 tickets to non-violators, do they?

**michaelrr1** · 07-22-2012, 03:45 PM

If Penn State would have had cameras in the locker room, maybe Sandusky would have been stopped earlier.

**CYlent Bob** · 07-22-2012, 03:54 PM

Originally Posted by michaelrr1

If Penn State would have had cameras in the locker room, maybe Sandusky would have been stopped earlier.

Great, now I've got to change the thread title. Thanks. Thanks a lot.

(but now that you've mentioned it....unless the camera footage went to someone OTHER than the PSU officials who were willing to turn a blind eye to child rape in the name of The Almighty Nittany Lion Football Program, I wouldn't be so sure that he would have been stopped earlier.)

**Aclone** · 07-22-2012, 04:05 PM

Originally Posted by CYlent Bob

Great, now I've got to change the thread title. Thanks. Thanks a lot.

Too late. You guaranteed it. I want my money back.

I would assume that there are legal remedies in place. I mean, if you knew that you NEVER, EVER ran a red light or sped, and then got a ticket, you'd fight it, right?

Crazy thought--maybe the solution is simply not to run a red light or speed?

**CYlent Bob** · 07-22-2012, 04:15 PM

[QUOTE=Aclone;2963775]Too late. You guaranteed it. I want my money back.

I would assume that there are legal remedies in place. I mean, if you knew that you NEVER, EVER ran a red light or sped, and then got a ticket, you'd fight it, right?

Crazy thought--maybe the solution is simply not to run a red light or speed?[/QUOTE]

What does that have to do with civil tickets based on faulty technology? Even if you DO make it a point to avoid speeding or running red lights, these fracked-up camera systems can issue you a ticket. And then after you get the ticket, the burden of proof is on YOU to prove that you didn't run the red light?

I don't think you understand the concept of "innocent until proven guilty".

**CYdTracked** · 07-22-2012, 05:10 PM

Most of the red light cameras record the seconds before and after the light turns red and an officer has to actually look at every violation before they issue a citation. If you get one you probably were an obvious violation because if you are in the intersection before it turns red it is not a violation. I think they usually send a link with both photos and a video clip of the violation. Anyone on here ever get one they can confirm this>

**Rabbuk** · 07-22-2012, 05:11 PM

Yes each is checked by an officer my dads gotten 3.

**Aclone** · 07-22-2012, 05:16 PM

Originally Posted by CYlent Bob

I don't think you understand the concept of "innocent until proven guilty".

Of course I do. I'm the one in the PSU thread saying that the hundreds of thousands of people associated with Penn State who did nothing wrong shouldn't be punished for the actions of one. Or ten. Or fifty. However many, it's still not right.

**CyDude16** · 07-22-2012, 05:19 PM

Uh oh, don't get dmclone started on this topic.

**Clonedogg** · 07-22-2012, 05:28 PM

Maybe Sandusky free but it is still a beaten to death topic.

**dmclone** · 07-22-2012, 05:41 PM

Originally Posted by CyDude16

Uh oh, don't get dmclone started on this topic.

No comment

**CYlent Bob** · 07-22-2012, 07:27 PM

A beaten to death topic? I guess that's why I went back 3 years to get the article linked above? Or not.

I want law enforcement to be credible. To me, this isn't as much of a law enforcement issue as it is a local politicians issue. Cops aren't the ones pushing these cameras, it's the politicians looking at paydays for their cities. When civil fines are issued by systems that have obvious weaknesses like this, it hurts the credibility of the system. When the credibility of the system is hurt, people are more likely to say "eff it - they don't care if I'm innocent or guilty, so why should I care about following the law?"

Three things:

1. I have NEVER received a ticket for squeaking through a red. Not even a warning. That doesn't mean I'm willing to "take one for the team" and be charged with it when I didn't do the crime. I'm also not willing to say "screw you, you probably did it anyway" to other people who get the tickets. Just like anything else, if you did it you should pay the ticket; however, if you didn't do it you shouldn't be forced to pay just because it's less of a hassle to pay than to fight for your rights.

2. I know that there are multiple contractors providing these systems to municipalities. Therefore, some might be honest while others are more willing to play in the gray areas. I'm willing to say that the operators in Iowa appear to be honest, if you're willing to admit that they might not always stay honest, especially when large civil fines are involved.

3. There are MANY things you can do to prevent accidents at intersections. Tweak the light timing (especially the duration of the yellow), use overlapping reds, and install "pre-warning" flashers at high-speed intersections with a history of crashes (check out the last set of lights North of the Highway 5 bypass on SE 14th Street in Des Moines if you're a local & you'll see what I mean). You can also have regular police presence at problem intersections. The problem with these solutions is that they don't provide revenue for cities, which is a problem for all of us since they all provide safer streets than the red light cameras provide.

**Clonehomer** · 07-22-2012, 07:39 PM

Originally Posted by CYlent Bob

Just saw this piece linked on Instapundit. Florida: Traffic Camera Records Impossible Speeds Red light cameras are registering offenses against vehicles that are supposedly going up to 215 mph at the time? These are NOT speeding tickets (because red light cameras are not legally allowed to assess speeding penalties), but this data is collected whenever an alleged red light violation occurs. To me, this brings up an interesting point: If the system can't be trusted to register the speed of the vehicle, should we trust it to tell us if the vehicle ran the red light? After all, it's not like cities and the private traffic camera maintenance companies have a financial motive for installing unreliable systems that send $100 tickets to non-violators, do they?

I would assume that the cameras are not able to assess the speeding tickets because either the city has not given them authority to do so, or in order for a camera to be used to check speed it must undergo callibration tests that these have not. Making the correlation between not being able to issue speeding tickets and the equipment being faulty is a pretty big stretch. Finding speed is not critical in determining whether a car ran a red light. That is the intention of those cameras.

**dmclone** · 07-22-2012, 07:46 PM

The only reason I was ever against red light cameras was because I knew they would lead to speed cameras. I think in general red light cameras prevent accidents. I think in general speed cameras do not. I also see places in Europe that have cameras nearly every mile on their highways. I also know that you're hearing less and less about these so I wouldn't be surprised if politicians start ignoring the anger and you start to see more and more.

**Maplewurst** · 07-22-2012, 07:54 PM

Originally Posted by CYlent Bob

Just saw this piece linked on Instapundit.

Florida: Traffic Camera Records Impossible Speeds

Red light cameras are registering offenses against vehicles that are supposedly going up to 215 mph at the time? These are NOT speeding tickets (because red light cameras are not legally allowed to assess speeding penalties), but this data is collected whenever an alleged red light violation occurs.

Actually, I had'nt hit overdrive yet .... 2 V-8's with 4 superchargers...ppfffttt 215m.p.h....

Impossible ?... I think not

Bugatti's 268mph Veyron Super Sport - the world's fastest production car