OT: Lawn Care

[ISUATC]

Hmmm, I was going to get my crabgrass preventer/feeding on the ground as soon as all the snow was gone - which should be tomorrow. We had so much crabgrass last year it was sick.

Should I still wait a week or two?

Crabgrass preventer only works for 3 months. If you put it down now you will probably have to reapply it in June. Crabgrass does not germinate until we get the warm weather temps that we get in late May and June. I'd save the money and wait another couple of weeks.
The 50 degree soil temp is key also. It will be a few weeks until we see that.

[isuno1fan]

Hate the aerating, but it has to be done.

[Jerry1982]

Wow, this thread is a prescription for trouble. As an agronomist with >25 years of personal lawn and garden experience let me throw in my two cents worth here.

* If you need to kill broadleaves, just spot spray the culprits, not the whole freakin' yard.
* Homeowners shouldn't be allowed to buy or apply chemicals for their lawn without the same type of training required for farmers.

Okay, that was probably more than 2 cents worth. But, believe me, and this may sound strange coming from an agronomist, the closer you can come to organic lawn care, the better. That applies to you, your kids, your neighbors, your dog and your yard.

Now I'm not gonna disagree with many of the points you brought up. I'm one of those who thinks lawn care and golf courses contributes to surface water problems more so than what our farmers are doing. However, I do think a broadcast broadleaf herbicide is what you'll need to cure problem dandelions. (based on what untreated lawns look like) If you don't have very many weeds, of course you can kill them mechanically. NEVER overapply any pesticide.
Unfortunately, none of the products being discussed in this thread (including banvel) are a restricted use product. Although I believe the farmers use 2,4-D more responsibly than the general public, not even farmers need any special training (required by law) or licensing to purchase that product. If you can buy it in Wal-mart, you don't need a special license to purchase it.
In my lawn I never use a fertilizer. Why should I? I never remove the clippings. I'd never use anything to hinder the earthworm population either. Let them aerate.

[Jerry1982]

Apply the roundup using a small paintbrush and brush the blades.

Glyphosate (Roundup) will move through the plant, systemically, and I have seen the product kill non-target plants through the roots systems of targeted weeds. I've only noticed this happen when people try the "paintbrush" system. Remember, grasses are EASY to kill with glyphosates. Roundup loves to kill grass.

[RTBIO]

Unfortunately, none of the products being discussed in this thread (including banvel) are a restricted use product. Although I believe the farmers use 2,4-D more responsibly than the general public, not even farmers need any special training (required by law) or licensing to purchase that product. If you can buy it in Wal-mart, you don't need a special license to purchase it.

True, but the fact that we are all living right at the center of it changes the stakes. And just because you can buy it in Wal-Mart doesn't mean it's necessarily safe. Lot's of chemical that were deemed to be harmless in their heyday are now banned. And remember 2,4-D and Agent Orange are close relatives. Would YOU want to buy a home where the previous owner put on a 15-year dose of Lindane?

[RTBIO]

RTBIO, great info. Thanks

Got any solutions for Quack Grass? (I'm gun-shy with RoundUp as I've never had good luck growing anything in the spot applied.)

I agree with ISUATC, it's the only practical treatment. Be vigilent, you may have to stay at it for a whole season or more. Killing what you can't see above ground can take a while, in spite of what the ads tell you.

[jumbopackage]

Anyone have any good suggestions for keeping moles at bay?
I've been trapping them as much as possible, and probably gotten 3 or 4 that way, but one or two always seem to pop up in the spring and fall and they do a number on the lawn.

[Cyclonesrule91]

I am not sure if your quote about "prescription to trouble" is in referral to my posts or not, but my two cents on your two cents is as follows.

Wow, this thread is a prescription for trouble. As an agronomist with >25 years of personal lawn and garden experience let me throw in my two cents worth here

.

* No amount of fertilizer or chemicals are going to cure your bare spots.

I agree 100% and I never in any of my posts said to fertilize the crap out of your lawn. I fertilize in the spring and fall and like to use products with less N and more P and K to help root structure.

* If you have a big dog you are always going to have lawn issues.
* Core aeration is the best thing in the world you can do for your lawn in the Midwest. Spring and fall are the best times to do it. Earthworms do the best job, but some of your chemicals aren't very earthworm-friendly.

Agree on this as well. A bunch of neighbors this fall rented a machine for half a day and we did 9 yards in all. I have always heard Fall was the best time because of the freezing and thawing of the soil during the winter loosens the soil. You think we need to do it in the Spring as well?

* Reseed your lawn in early April and avoid a crabgrass preventer in those areas until after Memorial Day.

Agree with this as well and stated so in an earlier post.

* Too much fertilizer is worse long term than none at all. It stresses the lawn more than you realize. I only fertilize in the spring and fall. I'd put my results against anyone's.

Definitely agree with this which is why I only apply 2x a year and not the 4 step ripoff programs out there.

* A turf-type tall fescue yard is hands down a far superior turf for the homeowner than any bluegrass.
* Lawn services are a scam that preys on the ignorant and the "programs" are just as phony.

Scam is an understatement if you ask me but agree totally.

* Mow high and mow often.
* Water as infrequently as possible but heavily when you do. Here is where bluegrass really sucks; when the water come on.
* If you need to kill broadleaves, just spot spray the culprits, not the whole freakin' yard.

I have never intended that someone should overspray their yard. But using a Banvel(dicamba) or a 2 4D product is going to much more effectively kill the broadleaf weeds you are going to have in your yard then the crap you buy on the shelf in any store. Guaranteed. In some instances you can get by with the spot spraying or paintbrush roundup method, but if you have a big problem with dandelions, creeping charlie, crabgrass or more of the pesky broadleaf weeds, paintbrushing roundup is going to take a lot more time then spraying ones yard responsibly.

* Homeowners shouldn't be allowed to buy or apply chemicals for their lawn without the same type of training required for farmers.

Agree here as well, but Banvel and 2 4D are not a restrictive use pesticide and if common sense is used when applying it, will lead to no problems, regardless of if it's related to agent orange. It is not a residual product.

Okay, that was probably more than 2 cents worth. But, believe me, and this may sound strange coming from an agronomist, the closer you can come to organic lawn care, the better. That applies to you, your kids, your neighbors, your dog and your yard

I think we agree on most of the topics except for a few issues.

[RTBIO]

I am not sure if your quote about "prescription to trouble" is in referral to my posts or not...

I didn't mean to single anyone out. Your info on fertilizer analysis was on the money. But the tone of the whole thread started out "FERTILIZE, FERTILIZE, FERTILIZE...

I think we agree on most of the topics except for a few issues.

Yup.

[4429 mcc]

Ok, guys got one for ya. Creeping Charlie or ground Ivy, I share a fence with one of "those" neighbors who doesnt give two craps or a screw about his yard. And his creeping charlie invaded my yard last year. Tried to kill it at the fence line but I know I'm losing the war. I'm really thinking about calling in TruGreen Chemlawn because I know the spray they use will kill it.

Whats the suggestion for doing it myself. Small backyard fyi.

[rosco]

The ground temp needs to be above 56 degrees so it is best to wait till late april to middle of May to put down your crabgrass preventer.

[Cyclonesrule91]

The most effective way to kill creeping charlie is spraying 2 4D in the Fall but you will be fighting an uphill battle until your neighbor decides to get his yard in shape because that crap spreads like wildfire.

[Cyclonesrule91]

I didn't mean to single anyone out. Your info on fertilizer analysis was on the money. But the tone of the whole thread started out "FERTILIZE, FERTILIZE, FERTILIZE...



Yup.

Cool, thanks for the reply...

Did you say you should aireate you yard once in the Fall and again in the Spring? Could you explain that a little further?

[tyrelrobert]

Anyone have any good suggestions for keeping moles at bay?
I've been trapping them as much as possible, and probably gotten 3 or 4 that way, but one or two always seem to pop up in the spring and fall and they do a number on the lawn.

As long as you have a good lawn that has a good subsurface ecosystem (i.e. earthworms and such) you will never totally eliminate moles. They will come from other yards and areas so your best bet is to keep trapping. (F.Y.I. - my fiance swears that she heard that putting bubble gum in the mole tracks will kill them also. I myself am skeptical of that.)

[Wx4Cy]

Simple...

Perficut Lawn & Landscape, Inc.