Is teacher pay more important than the other variables for a good education?

[cyclonenum1]

Quality of the teacher has the lowest effect on learning...excuse me....HAHAHAHAHHAA. For that matter, why do we even have teachers? Can't we just put all the kids in the classroom with a security guard to keep them in order and have the kids teach themselves?

I don't think that anyone is saying that a teacher has no effect in the equation...just that there are other things that are more important to successful learning. Abraham Lincoln had very little formal schooling...he was mostly self taught through reading...he seemed to do OK...didn't he?

[dosry5]

[quote=travman23;412534]Interesting story. First off teachers are grossly underpaid for what they do.




I vehemently disagree. They are far from "grossly" underpaid.

A study done by the Manhattan Institute for Policy Research is widely accepted study that basically blows the "underpaid" theory out of the water. I think it's just become cliche to say that teachers are underpaid. Do they have an important job? Absolutely very important. But are they underpaid? The stats and the truth of the matter says no.

Article | The Teacher-Pay Myth

[ISUKyro]

As someone who teaches in Houston I'll agree 100% with - "it's the parents".
Out of all of my low scoring students and those with problems outside of school - if the parents are involved the problems get better much quicker.
When the parent involvement is little to nothing the problems get worse and worse. This applies from this as simple as students who struggle in class and don't care to pay attention thus leading to goofing off all the way up to students that are with gangs.

[cyclonenum1]

As someone who teaches in Houston I'll agree 100% with - "it's the parents".
Out of all of my low scoring students and those with problems outside of school - if the parents are involved the problems get better much quicker.
When the parent involvement is little to nothing the problems get worse and worse. This applies from this as simple as students who struggle in class and don't care to pay attention thus leading to goofing off all the way up to students that are with gangs.

I used to live in Sugar Land from 96-99. Did a lot of stuff with the ISU Club there...gamewatches, special olympics, etc. A friend of mine from ISU taught in Humble.

[cmoneyr]

two worst teachers I have ever had and both times I had at least the 3rd highest score in the class.

I was motivated.. so the quality of the teacher didn't mean a thing. I wasn't there for a show and popcorn.. the information I needed was in front of me ... in my textbook.

Why do you think so many are getting thier first degree via the Internet and correspondence these days... they (the students) are motivated.

I truly love the arguments that we need to have others give for us to take, FIRST, before we even try.

-keep.

Well, I'm glad you think that teachers aren't necessary. Am I correct to assume that you won't be sending your kid to school then?

[Stormin]

Why do you think so many are getting thier first degree via the Internet and correspondence these days... they (the students) are motivated.

-keep.

Motivation might be a possible reason. Another reason could be that many Internet degrees give college credit for "life experience" as long as you pay a fee. i.e. Degrees for Sale.

I'm a more than a little skeptical of people getting a Master's Degree in about a year over the Internet. And I realize that there is probably a wide range of requirements from different colleges and Universities offering Internet Degrees.

[cmoneyr]

I don't think that anyone is saying that a teacher has no effect in the equation...just that there are other things that are more important to successful learning. Abraham Lincoln had very little formal schooling...he was mostly self taught through reading...he seemed to do OK...didn't he?

It's fine if people don't think teachers are necessary to learning. I'd just hope those people aren't hypocrites sending their children to school, because that only takes time away from someone teaching my kid.

[keepngoal]

Well, I'm glad you think that teachers aren't necessary. Am I correct to assume that you won't be sending your kid to school then?

Why must you jump to conclusions from my posts? Are they not clear or do I mistype something? Teachers ARE needed, however they are NOT the sole nor the most important reason for a kid to succeed.

IMO the reason a kid succeeds should be in this order:

1. The student
2. The parents
3. The teacher
4. The administration

-keep

[Stormin]

Interesting that I found one Internet University that offered a Doctorate Degree in as little as 7 days. They based it on "Life Experience". And you wrote a Doctoral Thesis. Simply order your Doctorate from their list of choices.

[cycloneworld]

I vehemently disagree. They are far from "grossly" underpaid.

A study done by the Manhattan Institute for Policy Research is widely accepted study that basically blows the "underpaid" theory out of the water. I think it's just become cliche to say that teachers are underpaid. Do they have an important job? Absolutely very important. But are they underpaid? The stats and the truth of the matter says no.

Article | The Teacher-Pay Myth

That article should end the discussion that teachers are underpaid. However, teachers work a lot more than just the time they are in the classroom but so does a lot of other professions.

[keepngoal]

And yes I send my kids to school.. with *GASP* a teacher in the classroom. I bet I spend more time going over her homework (only Kindergarten.. are you kidding me???) then most of her friends parents spend with them on their homework.

She is to a point that she tells us she has homework and asks if we can do it before supper so to have it done... I think that is pretty good. But it did take us a while to get there.

-keep.

[Stormin]

Why must you jump to conclusions from my posts? Are they not clear or do I mistype something? Teachers ARE needed, however they are NOT the sole nor the most important reason for a kid to succeed.

IMO the reason a kid succeeds should be in this order:

1. The student
2. The parents
3. The teacher
4. The administration

-keep

Then that really means that NCLB is really, really, really bad legislation. Glad we agree on that.

[keepngoal]

Interesting that I found one Internet University that offered a Doctorate Degree in as little as 7 days. They based it on "Life Experience". And you wrote a Doctoral Thesis. Simply order your Doctorate from their list of choices.

I was referring to more structured University's .... Penn, Briar Cliff... etc.

geesh, a 7 day doctoral degree... YIKES!!!

-keep.

[keepngoal]

Then that really means that NCLB is really, really, really bad legislation. Glad we agree on that.

great concept and in theory.. but how do you MAKE the parents be the second step instead of the schools being the first?

It sounds great and has a great goal... but it will fail because it removed family responsibility.. like most gov't programs Dems dream up (even if it was W's this time).

-keep.

[CloneAggie]

IMO the reason a kid succeeds should be in this order:

1. The student
2. The parents
3. The teacher
4. The administration

-keep

I think most will agree with this. The point that someone else made, though, is that an education provider has no control over #1 and #2. They can control the quality of their teachers, and among the ways they may be able to do that are higher pay and pay for performance.

All things being equal, you would have to be foolish to say you'd rather send your kid to a district with below average teachers than to one with above average teachers.